I think people dismiss how much AML regulations are directly linked to preventing crime from being efficient. There’s a reason that scammers ask for gift cards, and it’s not “just” because of traceability reasons (mules have always been a thing)
Countries have varying levels of fraud and organized scams, and I think stuff like AML compliance flows play a bigger part than people appreciate
Yes, and one could argue that banning end to end encryption and doing preventive monitoring of all communications would render crime even less efficient.
I think it’s just natural that in a democratic society people fall on different parts of the spectrum when it comes to thinking of what the correct trade-off should be.
Recently Lyn Alden posted how her wire transfer to her family in Egypt to cover some mortgage payments got blocked. I mean, if a celebrity (in some circles) with known family ties to Egypt experiences this, what chances do we mere mortals have?
Making a 10k payment to an African country basically lands you in AML red “don’t do business with” lists. And sure enough, maybe most people doing this are financing terrorists, what do I know. But I think there’s a meaningful debate to be had here.
> banning e2ee would render crime evem less efficient
Yeah, don't care if criminals use something that helps us all protect ourselves and reveal or be vulnerable only to disclose that which we CHOOSE. Like, the real choose, not Apple's "choose" what we want or you can't use everything
In case you're referring to the Apple thing—umm, ya they can. They have the NoDataCollected checkmark designation in the AppStore's Privacy Nutrition Labels. Anything they make is offefed/made 3rd party also and is therefore evidence they could have collected no data but consciously choose to design things in such a was that they are being disingenuous when they say they only collect the absolute minimum amount of data required for functionality
That is nowhere near what I was saying, I'm saying that this is the quote that resonated most with me because it tries to take away yet another thing that protects us all, not just criminals, businesses, and criminal_businesses
Sure, AML might be beneficial if it had no cost. It does make crime slightly more inefficient. However, AML has a massive cost. It makes legal transactions inefficient as well. Billions of people are unbanked and underbanked, in large part thanks to AML. It forces money transmitters to carry out what amounts to extrajudicial punishment on people and industries deemed "at risk". The estimated global cost of compliance amounts to hundreds of billions of dollars annually. Imagine if all those wasted resources instead went to chasing terrorists & human traffickers for those actual crimes.
People are not dumb, at least when it costs this much. AML exists for a reason, which I believe is collecting intel for three letter agencies to ensure USA’s continued dominance over the rest of the world.
We don't dismiss it. We know it makes life hard for criminals. We just don't care. It's still the financial arm of warrantless global surveillance. It's the government working around its due process restrictions by getting private corporations to do the dirty work. As such, it should absolutely be opposed and resisted on principle.
The USA was literally founded upon principles like these. Look how far from the ideal it's fallen. If you're gonna sacrifice freedom for security, might as well go all the way and become a fascist state.
This is because a lot of compliance is not optimised for maximum benefit (capture terrorists) but is just a tick boxing exercise.
There is also abuse. India is also using AML laws (forced by American led FATF) to crack down political opponents and human rights activists, as per Amnesty
> There is also abuse. India is also using AML laws (forced by American led FATF) to crack down political opponents and human rights activists, as per Amnesty
Similar situation here in Brazil. Former president got fined, people started donating money to him to nullify the fine and government started "auditing" those donors. They literally weaponized this AML/KYC bullshit into political persecution.
Of course. That’s an expected outcome if everyone just works within the system according to their incentives.
When it comes to the US, the country literally would not exist if the British had anything close to the modern governments’ abilities to control the money flows.
As in, the revolutionary period Patriot movement would’ve just been AML-ed to death.
I'd call the alternative (unlimited wealth and power for the criminal organizations because the government can't touch it) a far worse outcome. It's always about moves and countermoves.
There's no such thing as the perfect system. So we have to settle for something that at least works most of the time.
It's a politico-technological arms race. Government makes laws, people make technology that gets around the laws. With every iteration, they need to increase their tyranny to maintain the same amount of control over the people. The result is either an uncontrollable population or a totalitarian state.
The only question is: how much tyranny are you willing to tolerate before the government becomes worse than the criminals you want to stop?
That’s not really the case. The government mostly just makes one law that says “hey, bank, it’s your responsibility to know your customer and their source of wealth and God forbid you can’t when we come asking”.
I wonder what proportion of all Americans have actually had any kind of material interaction with KYC/AML. My guess is it’s approximately none of them.
> I wonder what proportion of all Americans have actually had any kind of material interaction with KYC/AML.
Impossible to know since it's illegal to tell someone they're the subject of such extrajudicial investigations. Even knowing about the existence of such laws makes them assume you're a money launderer because of your "technical knowledge".
Countries have varying levels of fraud and organized scams, and I think stuff like AML compliance flows play a bigger part than people appreciate