I can understand personal preference of a child but study after study show that children whose parents are actively involved with their education and schooling get better results.
Active involvement = parent teaches child various skills and ideas, reads books aloud, suggests interesting problems to solve, works together with them on extra-curricular projects, obtains materials and resources related to the child’s personal interests, ...
Micromanaging the completion of their school-assigned busywork is something different.
I don't know if you have kids, I am guessing not, if I am wrong, my apologies. Knowing what your kids have due for school is not micromanaging its a core part of being a good parent. I know if my kid has a math test so it lets me sit down with him and review for his test, it allows me to ensure he knows the basis for whatever comes next in his curriculum. Terribly overbearing parents are not good but I think people are for some reason assuming the worst from this app and more so the parents that use it and it seems very odd to me. I ensure my kids study for their weekly spelling tests for 10 minutes a day, and review with them before tests and that is seen as micromanaging and negative? Strange times.
The goal of school isn't just to pass the tests. If a kid fails to revise for a test, but it doesn't matter because their parent will just look up the schedule and force them to revise, then they learn nothing beyond what's in the test.
If they fail to revise and as a result do badly at the test, then next time they might actually take the initiative and revise through their own motivation, and that's a far more valuable skill than anything that might actually be in the test.
Not really. Schooling is largely targeted towards the great masses in the middle of the Bell curve. These kids will need help, prodding, and other forms of encouragement in order to keep their basic schoolwork up.
There are a smaller number of kids on the left and right tails that will, for the former, never make any effort; and for the latter, will require nothing other than support. That's just the way things are, I didn't make it that way, and there is nearly nothing that can be done to change it, and recognizing that fact will do more for most children than trying to pretend it doesn't exist.
The mass of kids who need the aid of their parents are helped when the parents can follow along. I have to use a system similar to the broken Swedish one for my kids. It's a mishmash of various systems, and sometimes teachers just give up and use something else, or use a less appropriate method (like a shared Google doc or similar). Keeping up with simple things like "when is the next math test" is a real chore.
While it would be great to be able to instill "initiative" into the souls of kids, it's unlikely to work. Unless you happen to know of a magick elixir that can do so, in which case there are a crapload of adults who could use a dose of this wizardry.
It helps to not romanticize children. Kids are dumb. Even the smart ones. They have little life experience, and their brains are still wired in such a way that they struggle to see consequences. Most of schooling is just a grind to slowly teach them enough basics that they can operate relatively efficiently. Left to their own devices, they will play games, eat candy, and believe that they will make a living as a Twitch streamer or something equally ridiculous.
Thanks for the feedback on my parenting style Diggsey, I will be on the lookout for a visit from child services for the terrible crime of paying attention to my kids results at school, making sure they do their homework and sitting down and studying with them for their tests. I only hope they can forgive me when they are older.
I’ve learned that once you have dogs or children, everyone else seems to have a very important opinion on what you should do with your own, all related services, etc.
You're saying that the negative results of failing a test should come from the school and not the parent. I don't see why this is true.
A school will grade a student down, but often kids will simply just not care about that unless there's impetus to do so from their peer group or people they rely on as a role models (e.g. parents).
Also, when talking about kids... I think it's useful to clarify what age group you think a particular standard applies to. Kindergarteners need more parent care and management than secondary schoolers. It's more okay for a 6 year old to fail a test, than a 17 year old prepping for university. The stakes are different, and the mental abilities of the child are different. What is reasonable for one is not necessarily reasonable for another.
Not him, but generally to large extend I have that strategy and kids do well. Both have good grades and are motivated. Obvious caveat is that if their grades were not good, I would get involved more. When their grades fallen a bit, I was there telling them that they need to learn, analyzing test with them and so on and blah blah. When homework was not done, I got involved for a while until the kid got into habit of doing it. Other obvious caveat is that when they ask for help, I always come in to help.
The thing is, hands off approach really works and motivates kids - but it still requires attention and correction. And it does not work with all kids at all ages.
Most people remember 15 years old self and assume kids all ages are as mature as they remember themselves. Meanwhile, most 6 years old are much less developed.
When homework is not done, teacher sends the email. Or gave the kid black point and then the kid was unhappy about it and told me. If it did not, that teacher would also send mail, but after like 2-3 points within short period (don't know the exact rules).
The other option is to ask in the evening "have you done homework". One of my kids would never lie and other only rarely, so it worked.
To add to it, old system was not freedom. One feature of old "parents know only what kids tell them" system was that many parents learned about issues only when inevitable end of semester report/grades came. At that point, issues grew large. Even worst, parents were surprised and shocked, tended to react badly, punish the kid , yell, beat them etc. I remember reading about flux of kids running away each time reports come.
In which alternative universe is teacher telling parent that homework 7 years old was not done micromanaging? Even among adults, analyst telling project manager you are not doing tasks right is not micromanaging. Or your peer developer telling pm your quality of work is bad. It is completely absurd.
The whole point of child raising is to raise the child. Not to go "kiddy, if you are not born organized and attentive, tough luck, we gonna do nothing and then blame you for being bad in school when you grow".
FYI in English "revise" means something like "edit". You probably meant "review". I know in Spanish "revisar" can mean to review, so that caught my eye, and thought you might be tricked by a false cognate.
I think it’s good to be involved but an app that passes information to the parent, essentially bypassing the child, is disempowering to the child. The child should know and be able to tell you she has a math test. If she is not good at managing that sort of thing, then she needs to get better. Using an app to circumvent the child’s own management of that stuff is at least similar to micromanaging.
Are you able to tell us, without looking at your calendar, every meeting you have for the next week, every assigned task without consulting your task manager, all without fail and with perfect recall of the details?
Expecting more from a child's brain than you do of yourself is folly.
At least for my nieces and nephews, they have as much access to their scholastic portal as their parents. So yes, such calendars are absolutely useful tools. A good thing for parents and children to look at together.
And much like their calendars, we do not ourselves set every event that appears on our calendars.
Well I specifically can tell you every meeting and assigned task, but that's because the meetings are at standard hours and I work on larger open ended projects.
I was also absolutely terrible at remembering what's for homework and when the school exams are... so I learned to write it all down in a notebook so I didn't miss anything. No fancy parent control required. That was basically standard practice ingrained from first grade onwards.
I would ask her why she didn’t do well on her math test and encourage her to think about strategies she could use to do better on the next one. I believe in providing scaffolding and empowering young minds. I realize there are different parenting styles but at some point the child won’t have anyone else to manage her and will need to solve problems in her own. It’s great if she has a lot of practice and experience with self management by the time she has to fly solo. I suppose if there’s enough wealth in the family she may never need to manage her own affairs, but I feel like she would be missing out on important aspects of life; the pride and comfort that comes with self sufficiency and personal accomplishment.
"I would ask her why she didn’t do well on her math test and encourage her to think about strategies she could use to do better on the next one." How has that worked with your own kids? If my kid comes home with an F on a test, they don't want me to sit down and think about strategies. They are going to probably be upset (if they think academics are important) or not care at all (not a great alternative). First thing your kids wants is just to be told its fine and that they will do better on the next one. But them doing better on the next one will not result from giving them strategies, they are kids, you have to sit down with them, go over the subject matter and discuss it with them to ensure they understand.
"I feel like she would be missing out on important aspects of life; the pride and comfort that comes with self sufficiency and personal accomplishment." letting kids fail a ton of stuff in school so that they can learn better strategies sounds good in practice but in reality it will probably end up in the kid feeling terrible about themselves, and mentally resigning themselves to academic failure. Kids don't need strategy they need to know their family cares about them and are actively there to support and work with them.
I kind of think you two are talking past each other here.
By 'encourage her to think about strategies', I think the OP does mean to show that they love and support the child. That'd fall under the category of encouragement, and they probably think it's obvious that you'd take care of their emotional and mental health while problem solving.
On the other hand, you seem to be anti-strategy but you say that you need to 'sit down with them, go over the subject matter and discuss it with them to ensure they understand'. Isn't going over the material a strategy to do better next time?
It may be that the word 'strategy' is just ill defined here. I mean, this isn't the military, so isn't a valid strategy the application of any plan whether it be as simple as "hey kid, study before the test" or "let me teach you English-comprehension personally"?
That sounds like a reasonable approach for some parent-kid combinations. But as far as this discussion goes...
It was about an app that provided information like grades and that a test was coming up with the parent. It sounds like it would be a perfectly fine complement to your approach, no?
I don't see how it is some sort of replacement that is going to make everyone into helicopter parents. (And the problem with helicopter parents is not caused by some app.) In fact, I have trouble seeing how it intrudes more than the entirely nondigital approach to school-parent communication used when I was a kid - bring back this piece of paper with a parent's signature.
If there's one thing I remember from my own childhood, and know from my various nieces and nephews - children can't be expected to tell the whole truth, or sometimes even remember the whole truth.
One bad test, one missed homework, turns into a spiral of shame that makes children hide the truth out of a fear for their parent's and other trusted adults' disappointment (real or imagined). If my parents knew the truth - when I know the truth - we can fix it before it spirals into an unfixable situation, and not after.
Not all children are perfect, nor perfectly able to remember every event and assignment they have.
Of course these systems existed, they just used paper or other mediums. Did you not receive calendars, directory books or yearbooks, permission slip for upcoming museum trip, etc? Save the date slip or important school numbers magnet for the fridge?
My oldest kid is 5, but I hope when he is older I can leave him to handle his own schoolwork (offering help if he wants it).
> study for their weekly spelling tests for 10 minutes a day
Aside: Spending 1.5+ hours per week between home and school studying spelling per se in the way students typically study spelling is an outrageous waste of time.
Arguably studying spelling per se is a waste of time in any quantity (as compared to spending that time on intrinsically motivated reading and writing, and learning how to spell as a side effect), but anyone who cares enough about this to devote hundreds of hours to it should set up some kind of spaced repetition system.
It turns out that kids are not adults. Part of raising them is teaching them life skills such as time management is something that takes a of time and management. You may be lucky and have a child that manages time well, or you may have a contrarian that does what they want. Part of being that manager, is knowing exactly what you are managing and having readily available data is part of that.
I am contrary. Around 12, I rejected homework, learned to manipulate and lie instead. It took many detentions and frustrated parents to get me reoriented. I can completely understand kids who don't like being told to be a rote learning little worker bee who does what's told without question. Why do this at all? Why do it this way? No one else cares, they just want it over with as fast as possible, but the same crap comes up over and over again as if to make kids comfortable being bored, and doing what they're told. It's such magnificent bullcrap.
Rejoice if your kid is difficult. They see a problem. Adults need to help them understand it.
If your kid is a critical thinker and has problems with the school system, but is still learning, that's fine. If your kid is two years behind his age group in mathematics- that's less fine.
Part of being a good parent in this scenario is being able to tell the difference. Data can probably help- is my kid getting a D because he doesn't turn things in, or because he can't do long division?
Hacker: Education in this country is a disaster. We're supposed to be preparing children for a working life. Three quarters of the time they're bored stiff!
Sir Humphrey: Well I should have thought that being bored stiff for three quarters of the time was an excellent preparation for working life.
- Yes Minister (Season 2, Episode 7 : National Education System)
sure, studying spelling is probably a waste of time with today's technology but that doesn't change the fact that he has a spelling test every Friday and he is going to feel better about himself if he passes vs fails. Its not a bad thing to set your kids up to succeed within the given system. Its fine to be a rebel but you must also understand that going to school involves testing and as a parent you don't always get to choose the subjects. I very much think that the self esteem my kid gains from getting good grades and actually learning to study is well worth the horror of having to spend a few minutes a day with his dad hanging out, practicing spelling, learning math and chatting about their day.
If you want to set your kid to succeed at spelling tests per se (and he doesn’t have enough past reading/writing experience to know the words already), you could get a list of likely words a few months in advance and put them into some kind of spaced repetition system (whether electronic or based on paper flash cards).
You’ll pay back your initial time investment within a month or two, and you’ll end up with a dramatic improvement to efficiency and long-term retention, as well as teaching a useful tool/skill that can be put to good effect if the kid ever needs to memorize trivia for med school or bar quizzes.
Trying to cram-learn a new list of miscellaneous things every week is a fool’s game. The key to human memory is connections, context, and repeated exposure, not brute-force effort.
Personally I always just read science fiction books hidden in my lap during spelling time in school, and my teachers gave up on trying to get me to study lists of words I already knew how to spell. My older brother’s strategy was to just do poorly on spelling tests because he thought it was a waste of time: never seemed to hurt him, and decades later he can spell as well as anyone. YMMV.
I don't really know why you have to have kids to have an opinion. All of us have been kids, and "I hated things like this for reasons I couldn't express at the time and certainly wasn't allowed to express at the time, in retrospect it was not effective for me, and in retrospect it soured my relationship with my parents as an adult" is a valid argument.
The parents using this system have also been kids. Not having kids means that you have not had to deal with the frustration of trying to figure out what is going on with your kids at school. Knowledge is a very important part of making decisions for your kids and the more knowledge you have as a parent the better. No one is suggesting that the parent have intimate details of everything going on with their kids but the reaction to a simple app that allows the parent to know what homework is due and if there is a test is a little dramatic. Everyone is entitled to an opinion on anything, no one is saying they aren't but to ignore that parents and non parents may have different insight on something like this is disingenuous.
I know you have kids, so you're too close to the situation to have an unbiased view, but realize that the math is only a small part of what your child is learning here. They also need to know how to judge for themselves whether they are prepared, they need to know how to seek out help from you or a tutor when they don't. Similarly, they need to learn what happens when they don't do these things and just assume someone else will do it for them.
You are doing your child a disservice by ensuring they are always prepared for every challenge they face.
"You are doing your child a disservice by ensuring they are always prepared for every challenge they face." I think you are very much reading too far into the situation. I am making sure my 7 and 10 year old do their homework. They know there are consequences for not doing it because I explain to them that there are. Kids don't have to get hit by a car to know to look both ways, they just need the parent to tell them. I understand you don't have kids and so are coming at this from a theoretical position, but theory and a live breathing, emotional child are very different things. You could argue that this is the way you were raised and you turned out great, but everyone was raised differently and most of the people on this site probably turned out pretty well when compared to the majority of society at least from a financial and capability perspective.
"so you're too close to the situation to have an unbiased view, but realize that the math is only a small part of what your child is learning here" I appreciate the perspective, on the other hand you don't have kids so have not experienced the situation at all. The idea that a parent is doing a young child a disservice by sitting with them, reviewing their homework and discussing their day is pretty strange. I wish you well when you have children of your own. Now if you will excuse me I have to go and tell Brady how to improve the snap in his throws.
Edit: "I know you have kids, so you're too close to the situation to have an unbiased view, but realize that the math is only a small part of what your child is learning here". Your argument boils down to people without kids are the best people to know what is best for kids as people with kids are too close to the situation. That makes no sense and I disagree.
if parents want to do this, they should know they kids have exam... just one semester failue on exam, kids will start escape and "forgot" homework and more test, if parent work too hard they even have no chance find it...
I guess this comes down to the definition of actively involved versus overbearing.
There is a fine, fine, fine line to walk between the two. Knowing how your kid is doing, asking questions, and being interested in their schooling is okay. Using it to force action without learning consequence is not.
It is, sometimes, okay for a kid to miss an assignment because they're not great at time management. That's how they learn consequences for their actions.
Anyway, you two have a fundamental disagreement, I believe, about the level of interaction and control required to be involved.
I was a bit happy for sometimes getting help with reviewing homework and someone to practice English words with (that is, one of my parents). And who reminded me of things I'd forgotten, be it homework or the sports bag.
Some people here (not you) seem to think that one shoe fits all -- that because they didn't want the parents to be involved, that's what best for everyone.
When in fact kids (and grown up people too) can be very different from each other
