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> The Stasi would be proud of the surveillance state that western countries have created with Obama at the helm.

Spoken like someone with little sense of historical perspective. Or understanding of the DDR.




I'm not sure comparing the size of the filing cabinets of the Stasi and the NSA is particularly helpful in understanding the differences between those two organizations.


The only difference is that the Stasi didn't have the tech available to them that the NSA has.


I know we're not historicans here, but I'm German, so I am quite sensitive when it comes to the Stasi: Please be aware of the thousands of people who have been killed, tortured, inprisoned and repressed by the Stasi in the DDR. The Stasi took the freedom of a whole nation. They destroyed so many lives. You can compare the spying techniques but not the wrongdoing (not saying the NSA is free of any wrongdoing). It's another dimension, better, several dimensions.


You do know that the US has the largest prison population in the world...

It outdoes the DDR by a factor of two with regard to those they imprison, as well the DDR stopped executing anyone in 1987, as of last year the US still executes minors.


Well, plus the culture of informing on your fellow citizens at large scale (10-20% of German citizens were active informers...)

... or the German citizens killed by the Stasi...

Do you really think the only difference between the Stasi and the NSA is the technology available?


Absolutely. The mindsets of spy masters never changes, no matter the era or country.


Then how do you explain how the Stasi kidnapped and killed lots of German citizens, while the NSA has yet to do the like?

I can understand if you're saying you fear the NSA's power grab because of similarities with the Stasi. I have trouble believing that you think there is literally no difference between the Stasi and the current NSA, given their body of work has significant differences.


The NSA spies on far more people than the Stasi could have ever hoped to. The NSA is just the intel branch of a government that has killed and imprisoned more people than the East German government did.

Arguing about the niceties of barbaric practices is fruitless anyway, but we can argue about the size of the weapons wielded by the barbarians.


I'm in agreement that the NSA shares certain characteristics with the Stasi - spying on its own populace is one of them. I also get it if you don't differentiate between citizen/non-citizen in terms of targeting. Heck, I'm with you in regards to (most of) what I believe to be your position.

However, your tone and word choice, along with the hyperbole of your statements, serve to weaken your point.

The Stasi created a culture of fear in the populace of the nation they were supposed to protect. They used the citizenry against itself; fathers doubting children, wives were suspicious of neighbors.

German citizens and residents found sufficiently undesirable were imprisoned or executed by the Stasi.

While the US has committed some terrible acts abroad in the name of anti-terrorism, I still contend there is a significant difference between the current NSA and the Stasi.

It's similar to how I object when people equate the US internment of their Japanese residents with the Nazi Final Solution. Similarities, sure. Both awful, sure. But there is a difference between immorally and illegally imprisoning people based on race for a few years and trying to wipe an entire race from the face of the planet in a systematic and sick environment.

Anyone who conflates arguments like that sound like they're shouting with an agenda, and it only serves to weaken what would be, in a more measured tone, a strong argument.




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