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Which is insane. The federal government already knows who we are, via SSN, tax returns, and whatever else. The state already knows via tax returns, driver's license, and whatever else.

If we, collectively, don't want a true national ID, then federal regulations on state-issued IDs should be available (something roughly akin to ReadID, but with the ability to use the ID as a proof of age or other attribute as needed).

We'll get there eventually, but not before we try everything else first.

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>Which is insane. The federal government already knows who we are, via SSN, tax returns, and whatever else. The state already knows via tax returns, driver's license, and whatever else.

"They can already send a drone to watch you and track your cell location and, and, and, why does it matter if they also slap up a million AI powered cameras?"

The comprehensiveness of the system matters.


Not sure how you jump from "ID with chip" to "AI-based drone and camera network". We can do one without the other.

Your failure of imagination doesn’t make national ID a good idea.

This is Chesterton’s Fence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._K._Chesterton#Chesterton's_...


The point was to compare the proposed ID change with the state of surveillance before (bad but still not all that comprehensive) and after Flock et al (more comprehensive).

They are already doing the camera thing with flock.

> […] ability to use the ID as a proof of age or other attribute as needed

What attributes should require proof? Where do you draw the line?

Age?

Gender?

Race?

Religion?

Political party?

Citizenship?

> We'll get there eventually, but not before we try everything else first.

We got here by trying everything else first.

The “good old days” are now. Thousands of years of progress and blood delivered our liberal societies. Don’t give it up so easily.


Whatever society needs... this is why we have elections and stuff.

Really, the broader point is I'm tired of giving away massive chunks of my PII (SSN, DL copies, etc) instead of just having something from the government that will say "Yep. He is who he claims."

If we, collectively, decide we need age-gated websites, then let's enable that properly. I shouldn't have to give NYT a scan of my DL and my SSN to gain access.


> If we, collectively, decide we need age-gated websites

We haven’t decided this.

> having something from the government that will say "Yep. He is who he claims."

You’re literally trading liberty for convenience.

I understand your position. I just fundamentally disagree that the tradeoff you are so eager to make is worthwhile.


What liberty am I trading? The government already knows who I am.

They don’t know what you do.



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