Not sure the phrasing of "undocumented immigrants have had their lives ruined" is the angle you want.
The angle should be that CBP is causing a lot of unjustified problems for legal residents and citizens. People having to spend 20k to get back property that the government never should've taken is not good for deterring undocumented immigrants. When CBP agents need to spend 20 days of the month rounding up people on farms and home depot to meet quota those are 20 days _not_ spent searching for drug dealers.
I'm not looking for a political angle, I'm straight up asking: Has the 70,000 people put in concentration camps and then deported made their lives demonstrably better and happier?
Let's talk about those unfortunate migrants who are having their lives ruined. In West Oakland, much ado was just made about ICE attempting to pick someone up near an elementary school [0]. Some locals swarmed the cops to try to protect the poor man from being "kidnapped."
Turns out ICE conducted a targeted immigration enforcement operation to arrest Gonzalo Ramirez Martez, whose rap sheet includes multiple arrests for DUI, domestic violence, driving on a suspended license, etc. I don't know of a developed nation that wouldn't deport a habitual drunk driver who beats women.
In my county, every local ICE apprehension has been the result of targeted operations against criminals with substantial records, to include domestic violence, rape, aggravated assault, and meth trafficking for the cartels among others. No exceptions have been found by the local press, and it's not for lack of trying.
Is my life better because these criminals are being deported? Yes. So long as one "side" pretends it's all innocents being kidnapped, the rest of us will ignore you, because it's obviously and demonstrably not the case. I don't want woman-beating violent felons in my immediate location, and if an American were doing the same thing in another country they would absolutely deserve to be sent home in handcuffs.
Do I have trepidation about the methods being used? Sure, it's why I'm in this thread. But let's not pretend there's no benefit to what's going on, because it seems pretty clear to this observer that removing repeat offenders is a good thing.
What are you talking about? For all intents and purposes it is all innocents, and you know it. Arguing otherwise is just that - an argument, said just to try to "win" for your "side".
You're advocating that we assume everyone is a violent criminal so that we can jail that 1 in 9,000 that actually is dangerous. Guilty until proven innocent. You can't get more un-American than that, really.
Look, you asked 'is my life better?' and the answer is yes. I haven't seen any of these supposed innocent people being deported everyone keeps bringing up. What I have seen is people with significant criminal records being deported from my county, something I am great with. Violent felons who beat women or work for cartels don't need to be here, and so far every single person apprehended here has ended up having a substantial record.
I have also seen effectively zero retractions, corrections, or updates on press articles about these supposedly innocent people once their criminal histories become publicly available. Well, CBP or HSI or ICE will put up an announcement, but little good that does. It's no wonder people think ICE are the forces of evil when they never learn the "local father" is a registered sex offender or a violent drunk.
I absolutely share your concern over profiling driving patterns, but I don't think hyperbole is useful, and for me it immediately puts a person's credibility near zero.
Iryna Zarutska's life was ruined. When liberals downplay events like these, it pushes people to the other side, even if the other side has issues. It's not hateful to want less crime.
The barrier on HN is higher, but it's happening. Same on reddit. I'm my local sub, any time a political topic comes up, a horde of low karma, low activity accounts come online to cheer the administration or ask fake "concern troll" questions. The Internet of today is not the Internet of 2005.
I'm not allowed to disagree with people? What is wrong with you? And yeah, I use this site rarely. I also work and program and do many other things in my free time.
Sure, and Charlie Kirk was murdered by a US citizen. It's okay for us to correlate a rising trend in political violence with something other than immigration.
It's not as pleasant or vindictive as saying "the nonwhites did it" but it certainly seems to hold true when the political pot boils over. It's rarely the immigrants taking potshots at the president or storming the capitol, but instead deluded ideologues who are naturalized Americans.
You mean "natural" citizens. Naturalized is when one is not a citizen, but is made one.
On that note, the administration has started the process of de-naturalizing immigrants, which is something I'd never thought I'd see except in extreme cases.
For casual observers, this is where the fallacy is. I have to wonder what your media diet is, that of all the things to complain about, a false statement about the murder of a woman to justify watching the destruction of the country is the one a person lands on.
Our justice system is being ripped apart. Allies don't trust us militarily or economically. The president is pardoning people openly for money. His family is taking in hundreds of millions of dollars in cryptocurrency from anonymous sources. He shrugged off the murder of a Washington Post journalist while standing next to his murderer and called a journalist "insubordinate" for asking the question.
I read American and European news every day. I live in a relatively poor large American city. I continue to believe both sides show similar corruptness.
I don't support any politicians. Trump may be more blatant about things, but nothing has fundamentally changed. Civil liberty was aspirational at the start of the USA, was once almost real, and then immediately began reversing.
A person in the USA has approximately zero of the rights guaranteed in the Bill of the Rights. The average person is relatively free, but the government can change that at will and the target of government power has little recourse.
You mean aren't there already massive problems with high healthcare costs here? Yes. And housing costs. And car insurance costs. And property tax costs.
Having millions of foreigners here who are net-costs to taxpayers doesn't make it better it makes it worse. Cost of living goes down massively if we were to deport 30 million illegal aliens.
Then there's the H1B and other visas fiasco. Wages go up for Americans if this program is scrapped. Part of the discontent with Trump is he is not acting aggressively enough on any of this. So he has approval problems from all sides. And whether people agree with those like me that identify cost of living pressures as caused in large part by immigration, those same people and everyone else are going to have general "disapproval" and unhappiness with the effects.
When you have an average of 2.4 million new people pouring in for 4 years, the collateral damage is bad and eveyone is feeling it now.
Yes, that occurred to me, but the full number of foreign-born residents is in the 50-60mill range. I assumed if that was the goal they would have gone with the larger number cause it looks scarier, but no. There must be some weird middle ground where they only want to denaturalize some people, and I kinda want to know where they draw that line.
> "foreigners here who are net-costs to taxpayers"?
This is a straight up falsehood, using any measure you'd like. Why do regressives insist on just making things up to justify their prejudices?
The recent surge in immigration is going to lower the deficit by nearly $1 trillion over the next decade.
Unauthorized immigrants pay federal taxes yet receive no federal services. They commit less crime, fulfill unmet labor needs at both ends of the skill ladder, and cost less than the average American in terms of healthcare.
Your whole worldview is based on stuff you just made up in your head and right wing fever dreams.
Crime rates? Nothing to do with immigrants. They commit less crimes than Americans.
Healthcare costs? Nothing to do with immigrants. Don't believe lies about unauthorized immigrants getting Medicaid, it doesn't happen.
Insurance rates? Nothing to do with immigrants.
Why would we support people wanting to emigrate to the U.S.? We are a nation of immigrants. Full stop. It is our greatest strength. Name an American with Mayflower ancestry who has done anything of any note in the past 100 years. It's all immigrants and their first generation children.
I'm sure you're totally fine with Elon and Melania, you just don't like brown immigrants.
And again, besides pleasing your political hatred, how does deporting anyone make you happy?
You are wrong on almost every metric, and I hope someday you'll see how much so.
Housing is the fault of NIMBYs and real estate speculation. Healthcare costs are not high because of illegal immigrants (mainly), it is due to a broken private health insurance system your party defends. At the cost of scaring the rest of the world away from ever wanting to be in this country, legally or not, while we disintegrate our political and economic power in the world. A Russian patriot as president of the United States could not do more damage to our country than your supported policies are doing to us, for years to come, today.
Do we need fewer migrants coming in? Yes. Do we need to target violent criminals of any kind thoroughly? Yes. Is this skin-color-based mass manhunt being done by the dregs of wannabe law enforcement (combined with every other idiotic, anti-American policy this president has pursued) worth it? No.
