I thought the smiley would make the 'Nope' less argumentative. Sorry if you felt it was offensive.
This was in response to:
> Side-note: the deontological argument is an argument for the existence of God, which uses the same principle as the grandparent
which was not actually true. This is not the same principle. Maybe the way I expressed the idea wasn't too clear.
A close principle, would be Descartes' cogito perhaps...
The question of whether a concept exists even in the absence of the human mind is easy to answer. Without arguments to authority, it suffices to realize that every past event that predates a human being is a concept for that same human.
Every future event, even what one is likely to do the next day, is also a concept.
Besides, why human? this is too anthropocentric. It should be extended to animals at the very least.
Or let's have another example: you don't really perceive UV light, and let's say you've never been told that it exists and you live in a cave. You will never interact with it. That does not mean that it does not exist. Whether as a physical concept or merely a pure concept which is then a probability. Even if that probability is 0 or negative even (negative??? we are veering quantum :).
It's probabilistic, not all of these concepts are realized materialistically (for future events that is).
An apple exists even in the absence of humans. So does its concept. Awareness of the existence of this concept is a different thing.
One must not forget that, as wise and introspective as some of the ancients were, they were also prone to a lot of cognitive biases such as anthropocentrism.
In essence, my original point is closer to the one of greek philosopher Parmenides.
But this is again not about physical existence. Matter is just data with a set of properties and interaction rules. One of them being existence. A physicist would call matter a special kind of spatial perturbation perhaps.
On a whole other note, I am curious: what made it appear as if English was a second language? :)
No worries, i did feel it was a bit dismissive, but no hard feelings at all.
I think your main claim is that concepts exist even if there is not a human to perceive/think of them. I have no horse in that race, sorry if that’s disappointing haha.
However, sometimes your comments seem to be claiming that _something_ must exist. _This_ i disagree with. We can observe that something does indeed exist in our universe. However, there is nothing that forced that to be the case. It just happens to be.
Regarding English, your phrase choice is just a bit odd and somewhat poetic, haha. It reminds me a bit of my dad, whose first language was Farsi. Here’s a couple concrete examples from your writing:
- “Maybe the way I expressed the idea wasn’t too clear”. “Too” is close in meaning to “excessive” (among other uses). I think it would be more common to see “wasn’t so clear” or “wasn’t clear enough”
- “Besides, why human?” I think there are a few words that have been dropped here, which would not normally be dropped even in casual English. You mean something like “Besides, why do we need a human perspective?” From context your meaning is clear, but the phrase “why human?” just feels unusual. I think the phrase “why X?” is common when X is a verb, but not so much when X is a noun. Consider, “why drive?”, “why worry?”, “why wear that?” all sound normal to me. On the other hand “why apple?”, “why lamp?”, “why monkey?” all seem unusual, even somewhat humorous.
- “On a whole other note”: i think the common phrase here is “on another note”. I’ve never heard “whole other note” before.
And now I’m curious: Is English your second language? In either case, your writing is unique in a very interesting way, and not something you should be worried about. I like the style, it gives you much more personality than most comments i see.
Edit: I can’t help myself, I want to guess where you’re from, lol. My best guess is Central Europe. The use of “too” to be “adequate” feels vaguely French to me, although that’s probably just based on Hollywood portrayals, since I don’t know any French. So I’ll say French is your first language, but I’ll claim victory if it’s anything from Central Europe :P
Edit edit: after googling, i see France isn’t usually counted as Central Europe. But I’m leaving my guess as France + Central Europe
Haha, before I answer you, could you do me a favor?
I'd like you to paste the message in an LLM of your choice and also tell me what they infer. I think that could be very interesting. ;p
Then I'll give you an answer.
Haha I did the same and it is a bit more nuanced. But it is hinting at either native speaker or French.
I do speak French. But it is still quite surprising to me. Although it did not pick up everything or it pointed at things that should indicate something other than French wrt punctuation for instance.
This was in response to: > Side-note: the deontological argument is an argument for the existence of God, which uses the same principle as the grandparent
which was not actually true. This is not the same principle. Maybe the way I expressed the idea wasn't too clear. A close principle, would be Descartes' cogito perhaps...
The question of whether a concept exists even in the absence of the human mind is easy to answer. Without arguments to authority, it suffices to realize that every past event that predates a human being is a concept for that same human. Every future event, even what one is likely to do the next day, is also a concept.
Besides, why human? this is too anthropocentric. It should be extended to animals at the very least.
Or let's have another example: you don't really perceive UV light, and let's say you've never been told that it exists and you live in a cave. You will never interact with it. That does not mean that it does not exist. Whether as a physical concept or merely a pure concept which is then a probability. Even if that probability is 0 or negative even (negative??? we are veering quantum :).
It's probabilistic, not all of these concepts are realized materialistically (for future events that is).
An apple exists even in the absence of humans. So does its concept. Awareness of the existence of this concept is a different thing. One must not forget that, as wise and introspective as some of the ancients were, they were also prone to a lot of cognitive biases such as anthropocentrism.
In essence, my original point is closer to the one of greek philosopher Parmenides.
But this is again not about physical existence. Matter is just data with a set of properties and interaction rules. One of them being existence. A physicist would call matter a special kind of spatial perturbation perhaps.
On a whole other note, I am curious: what made it appear as if English was a second language? :)