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> They seem only distinguishable aesthetically to me.

This is likely to depend heavily on what positions you care strongly about.



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The healthcare issue doesn't even make sense. Democrats passes the ACA and were going to create a public option but couldn't gather enough Republican support to ensure it could pass. It was an earnest attempt to provide healthcare for all Americans. The Republicans have done nothing even remotely similar and have only attempted to take healthcare away.


One item over the course of 12 years is uh lip service at best.

The lesser of two evils is still an evil.

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Somebody will certainly bring up the filibuster at some point. Thats not in the constitution and can be removed at any point by 51 senators. As a whole democrats are not united on what to do hence why they never remove it. Which then lets them point to it as a scape-goat as to why they can't fix any problems.


> One item over the course of 12 years is uh lip service at best.

For the 30M newly insured, probably not.


Not at all, they had the votes. The public option was killed by Lieberman.

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/newsletter-art...

The ACA was the same market-based approach as the 1993 GOP healthcare plan. Republicans don't want to touch it because it was their idea.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2013/nov/15/ellen-qual...


If you're not part of a group that will suffer under a white-supremecist theocracy they look very similar.

If you're part of a group that will, there is a visible difference.

Picking the lesser evil is actually a good thing if you can reduce harm. It doesn't solve the problem of it being a lesser evil, but it may make space to change that.


And that's four of many hundreds/thousands of things care about.

It'd be pretty silly to claim the two parties are identical on these issues, as well. Significant differences exist even on these four.


I agree with what you're saying, but it strikes me (& this is particularly poignant on THIS site), that this discussion is somewhat equivalent to the "blub" paradox (aka, how do you explain the power of lisp macro's to someone who grew up only with c & Java).

Americans are THAT brainwashed into thinking they really have a real choice at the ballot box, when in reality all choices that matter were weeded out long long before in the backroom selection process...


Counterpoint: folks not from America create a 2d projection of our government where on the whole Americans are very aligned and where (usually Europeans) are not and conclude that US parties are the same while their parties are very different.

Meanwhile I can't tell the difference between any of the (just picking one) UK parties. From an outsider perspective their government seems exactly the same no matter who is elected. But I don't conclude that the Brits are brainwashed and instead that I would have to be there to actually understand just how different they are.

We're at a point in the US where your political party is a dating dealbreaker for 60% of Americans and 85% of Americans only date within their own party. This isn't a small group of heavily politically involved with strong opinions, this is everyday people recognizing what are extremely different and fundamentally incompatible world views.

We're only 6 months in and I would hope the world can really feel the difference when a conservative government took power. I would be shocked if anyone couldn't tell the difference between our government pre and post january.


Rebuttal to your counterpoint: I've lived in the US for 25 years, so I'm not unaware of the "supposed differences".

What were saying is that these "supposed differences" are mostly over inconsequential things, designed to mobilise the masses into 1 camp or another, all while LEAVING THE MAJOR ISSUES untouched.

It doesn't matter if team red or team blue is in charge, immigrants get scapegoated and caged (happened under Obama & Biden).Just that team red takes greater visceral delight.

It doesn't matter if team red/blue is in power, the HOLOCAUST is armed, funded & covered for.

It doesn't matter if it's team red or blue, the military budget keeps going up, and the almost pyschopathic need to keep dumping military bases into other peoples backyards, the need to freeze conflicts into eternal points of instability (to then be exploited in the future), the need to keep poking at other people's pressure points to instigate war, the need to continuously "regime change" any sovereign country you like (all the while bemoaning "foreign interference" in your own elections... irony wants its ball back)

And failing all of that, the need to create/arm/fund terrorist groups of any stripe or persuasion to get what you want done. Be they right-wing death squads in Central America, to neo Nazis in Europe, to Daeesh in Syria/Iraq (and we can all drop the pretence now that CNN & the state dept all rushed in to validate the Daesh head honcho in Syria)

Etc, etc, boringly etc.

All of these things did happen, are happening, and will continue to happen - irrespective of team red or blue.

And irrespective of whether the bulk of the American population actually wants these things or not.

But yes, I'll grant you, voting team red or blue will impact the eternal question of who gets to urinate in which public bathroom.

Yay democracy


Due to our current lack of representation. We're an extreme outlier among OECD countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legislatures_by_countr...

https://www.reddit.com/r/UncapTheHouse/comments/lklp4h/the_u...




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