The ugly question is how much collateral is fine. Hezbollah confirmed the deaths of 3 people, two of its fighters and this girl. Of course, this will surely escalate the war between Israel and Hezbollah so its surely negative even if the collateral ends up being very low because Hezbollah received most of the pagers.
>> They set these off in public spaces and private residences. There are already reports that Israel murdered a 10 year old girl with this attack. Absolutely horrible.
People tend to do whatever they want when they’re raised since birth to believe everybody that is not one of their in-group is a quite literal subhuman not chosen by god
HN tries to really avoid this kind of discussion since it never goes anywhere productive. Folks who have really strong views on Israel/Gaza are not going to change their perspective because of a comment thread on Hacker News.
In this case, they were posting information what was apparently perfectly accurate (except as to the exact age of the girl who was killed in the attack) - per CNN:
At least nine people, including an 8-year-old girl, have been killed by Tuesday’s pager explosions, Lebanon’s health minister Firass Abiad said in an interview with Al Jazeera.
And indeed it was quite helpful that they did so, as this particular detail hasn't yet made it into the coverage of the event in major outlets such as the NYT, for some reason.
I have a strong view. But I won't let that keep me from enjoying a good technical discussion. Like stuxnet, this will strongly influence opsec in the coming decade.
From my understanding of the HN guidelines, a technical discussion around the technology in this story is not an issue. Where things break down is when people starting talking about Israel vs Palestine, who is at fault, who should be punished, who is the true aggressor, etc.
I'm ready to believe you but the impression I have from your comment is that it would take quite a bit to convince you to take a step back from your personal beliefs and re-evaluate.
It doesn't even matter what you believe, based on what you wrote, my impression is that you are here to convince others that your viewpoint is correct, not necessarily to gain a new one.
For what it's worth, I have family members who are Palestinian, so I am deeply sympathetic to the plight of the innocent people dying in Gaza and the West Bank. I am not of Palestinian ethnic background myself (complex family history).
I believe the Israeli government and members of the IDF have done terrible things that they should be held accountable for. But I can't condemn the average citizen of Israel since I have no idea if they are for or against the war. I have enough Jewish friends and Israeli colleagues to know that there is a spectrum of opinion.
I also believe that organizations such as Hamas should be held accountable for the way the spend the lives of Palestinians in service of their greater cause. Some of the political leaders for the Palestinian cause use strong rhetoric while living comfortably far away from where the bombs are falling. And just like with Israelis, I have no idea what the average Palestinian believes about Israel, Hamas, or Hezbollah. I imagine there is a spectrum of opinion there as well.
I guess what I am trying to say is that it is possible for multiple truths to be operative at once.
>I also believe that organizations such as Hamas should be held accountable for the way the spend the lives of Palestinians
And the ITF for bombing, torturing, murdering and mass-burying them?
>Some of the political leaders for the Palestinian cause use strong rhetoric while living comfortably far away from where the bombs are falling
Keep the Hasbara points updated please, in Lebanon and and in Iran, Hamas's most prominent are killed. Their families in Gaza too.
>But I can't condemn the average citizen of Israel since I have no idea if they are for or against the war.
You could read the surveys, the number of people still actively working for ITF. Their online bragging of cold blooded murder and destruction of Gaza. And it is the only democracy around that part, so the Government must be controlled by the average voters?
I am curious how would you conceal an explosive in an electronic device (like a pager) to make sure that it minimizes collateral damage when it goes off. That is a political question since you ultimately are making a human life vs military objective trade-off.
The international law standard seems to be proportionality to the military objective desired, so maybe no one (generally) cares how many civilians die if you know the targets will be high ranking.
