The Makasar traded with Aboriginal people for trepang (sea cucumber), which they boiled down, dried on their boats and traded with China where it was, and still is used for food and medicine.
That trade was ongoing when the Dutch first arrived in East Indies, they burnt a lot of local records of the existing kingdoms so it's hard to know how far back such trade went on for - although this suggests regional trade going back to at least 4 BC.
I know where it is, but I was replying to "late roman. like 4th century. Trade with Taprobrane would be almost routine by then surely?" - a lot further than Taprobane (Sri Lanka) - the Romans did trade directly with the west coast of India, at least, but the other side of the Indian Ocean was a lot further from any Roman territory.
I mentioned the silk road for that reason. Nothing I said meant to imply direct trade with rome from Bali. I am sorry if I gave that impression. Coinage travels far when it's weight is tied to its value, or scarcity imparts extra value. If Balinese elites put roman coins in tombs, I would doubt its because they had low value to them.
My comment back story is I was joining up the far end of the Silk Road
> the silk road was almost 500 years old by then. Money flows.
with the Trepang trade, which would have gone past Bali on the way.
Superfluous in any case, the spice trade alone would be sufficient to extend Silk Road trade beyond China and into what would later be called the Dutch East Indies.
The dutch destroyed Bali. Women used to go bare breasted in Bali before the dutch brought in their women with long skirts, sleeves, hat and gloves and civilised the fuck out of the balinese people.
I’m pretty sure it’s the tourism that destroyed Bali. There’s plenty of videos and photos showing Balinese living traditional lifestyles in mid to late 20th century. The Dutch colonisation of Indonesia is actually notable for how little they tried to integrate the cultures.
Well, the same custom is present in Spanish beaches, but this is actually a double-edged sword. Once a woman starts showing their breasts she will continue to do so until her death. Some things you'll see in Spain cannot be unseen.
Well, unless you posses a superhuman ability to walk around with your eyes closed sometimes it is simply impossible not to see some breasts against your will.
You're overthinking it :) My original comment was just a reply to a guy who said "Bali used to be great, because women used to show their breasts", and I was like "believe me, some breasts you'd rather not see". I really do not care why women show their breasts, I just do not want to be traumatized by it :P
I think it is a bit of both.
In the corporate world, cleavage showing is a deliberate strategy employed to grease the wheels. Women know how to leverage their breasts.
The Makasar traded with Aboriginal people for trepang (sea cucumber), which they boiled down, dried on their boats and traded with China where it was, and still is used for food and medicine.
That trade was ongoing when the Dutch first arrived in East Indies, they burnt a lot of local records of the existing kingdoms so it's hard to know how far back such trade went on for - although this suggests regional trade going back to at least 4 BC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makassan_contact_with_Australi...