Developers seem in disbelief that it can happen to them? Wut?! We are precious, rare snowflakes who can demand sky-high salaries and leave if some manager even looks at us the wrong way. I have some friends working in sales and the amount of scolding and toxicity they face in their workplace would make a software developer break into tears and leave for a therapist.
I don't think 1000 applicants on a job is "bots applying automatically", that's just developers in disbelief trying to patch their feeble psyche with an explanation they can stomach. I seen this thing a lot on other professions than IT. Even ones that need some relatively difficult college degree and professional license like accounting. For a while there was a slight shortage of accountants so universities kept producing them, now a job has 200-300 applicants and they aren't bots. "Secretary" easily gets over 1000, I remember some time ago seeing 1500+ on a position and thinking "how can one be so stupid or desperate to even apply anymore"?
Well, hundreds of thousands of graduates spitted out by universities and bootcamps coupled with an economy downturn and here we are: developers are the new secretaries. Hope you know to type well ladies and gents coze you're gonna need it to get that job competing with 1000+ with about the same skill.
While I agree with you about SWE becoming increasingly commoditized (it 100% is), I'd disagree with comparing it with Secretary work - that industry is in complete free fall due to automation.
A better comparison for SWE would probably be Accounting and Law - both saw salaries stagnate as the number of entry level candidates skyrocketed, but once you get your foot in the door there is a solid path forward.
On top of that, because margins are so high in the software industry (50-70% compared to 1-10% in most other industries) there is a lot more cushion to support SWE salaries.
> with an economy downturn
We (in the US) aren't in an economic downturn anymore. Stocks have been rallying, GDP growth is some of the highest globally for the developed world, inflation has been tamped down, and local investment has skyrocketed.
On top of that, software is now viewed as critical by all organizations - and the ATT outage only highlighted that point even further.
> now a job has 200-300 applicants and they aren't bots
Because you'd be an idiot if you don't mass apply using your resume. Everyone does it, so you have to as well.
This strategy is what has been taught by University Career Services and upperclassmen since I was in college.
Greenhouse and Lever apps make it very easy to apply to a job as well, and a number of us just automate the application process to keep a healthy pipeline of interviews (for practice or the option to leave for another role)
It just feels like a downturn to the average person. A lot of this supposed growth is the real purchasing power of the dollar dropping precipitously leading to an asset bubble. And what economic growth is real trickles down to the middle class in the form of stagnant salaries and layoffs.
Tons of jobs created: yeah, but minimum income ones that nobody wants. Middle class job creation is stagnant or negative. Inflation tamped down: yes, primarily by manipulating the CPI calculation. Real prices are still rising.
I agree with your comments more than the parent you are replying to. Inflation is staggering. Those of us, mostly older people, with lots of capital are benefiting by the booming stock prices, etc., but average workers whose income is mostly salary are screwed.
I do think things are generally good right now, and I expect because of the upcoming presidential election the economy will be manipulated to look good, but we will hit an inflection point where the cost of paying interest on government and personal debt will collapse the economy, at least for a while.
I have what is probably a worthless prediction: the many democracies, true democracies, around the world will generally do all right over the next ten years, but I think the US, Russia, and China will all have serious problems. There are exceptions to this: countries like South Korea will also have problems stemming from really low birth rates. So, I am betting most of the world will do quite well over the long term, but a few countries will not.
I would say that a lot of the economy feeling bad is due to shrinkflation and jacked prices which happened during Covid that will never return to “normal.” Even if inflation is normal this year, it will still feel bad compared to recent memory, because in the last couple of years it increased by much more.
There is another aspect where most people I know (including low income in low cost of living areas) can often live comfortably, but some things like buying a house are absolutely less accessible.
> you'd be an idiot if you don't mass apply using your resume. Everyone does it, so you have to as well.
I've been on the receiving end of mass applications. If you stopped justifying your spam behind "everyone does it" (no they don't) and started tailoring your applications, leaning on your network (or building one up) you may need a lot fewer.
I have never mass applied, so I may seem idiotic to you. But even during the times I quit a job before looking for another, I've never been on the market for more than 2 weeks.
> I don't think 1000 applicants on a job is "bots applying automatically", that's just developers in disbelief trying to patch their feeble psyche with an explanation they can stomach.
No, this is objectively true. I've posted jobs before and LinkedIn counts those who merely click on the apply button as being an applicant. I've gotten those 500+ "applicants" alerts but I'd be lucky to get even 1/20 of that number of resumes.
SWEs are all rockstar who would only be hurt by unions they say just before they get fired because a higher up wants their bonus or their stock price to go up for their 'portfolio'. It could never happen to them.
> After previously seeing 50 to 75 applications for available jobs on LinkedIn, he’s now seeing between 500 and 1,500 as workers are chasing fewer available jobs.
How much of this is the rise of auto application services? From the perspective of a job seeker, there is virtually no reason not to send your resume in for every remotely potentially applicable job. If a bot can auto apply, it is not worth your time to even read the job description.
that kind of thing has been available for a while now and it hasn't really been an issue. it's only in the recent environment that it's been _this_ bad.
I keep getting automated spam from recruiters and companies. I'm pretty sure if I was ever searching for a job, I'd return the favor ;)
And yes, LLMs are probably good enough to generate cover letters for most large companies. It already is not worth to read most job application emails. Instead, you post a public profile for legal reasons and then hire someone from your personal network.
> From the employer's perspective it has to be annoying too, since many pf the applicants arent really interested.
I think employers are ultimately the root cause of this problem, or in the very least recruiters paid and working for these employers. I lost count of the number of job ads that some companies post on any given day, and the extent and number of these job ads are better described as fire-and-forget broadcasting.
I'm talking about the exact same job ad being reposted multiple times a day on multiple geographical regions with multiple variants. Every. Single. Day.
And I doubt the job-to-jobad ratio is higher than 5%.
So what is an unemployed person to do? Reply to a single job ad and expect that one to be the one that counts?
Can a bot write a motivation letter precisely targeted to the company too ?
(I shudder to think that we might be nearly there with neural networks, I might have to forget about even trying to find my potential next job using the normal channels, especially since using LinkedIn is absolutely out of the question.)
You can probably take comfort in the fact that this puts employers in the same boat. Application filtering mechanisms will need to evolve to cut through the automated noise.
The metric might also be straight unreliable, either via people filing false applications to make their own look more respectable, or from LinkedIn lying about the metric to give the appearance of value added.
I don't think 1000 applicants on a job is "bots applying automatically", that's just developers in disbelief trying to patch their feeble psyche with an explanation they can stomach. I seen this thing a lot on other professions than IT. Even ones that need some relatively difficult college degree and professional license like accounting. For a while there was a slight shortage of accountants so universities kept producing them, now a job has 200-300 applicants and they aren't bots. "Secretary" easily gets over 1000, I remember some time ago seeing 1500+ on a position and thinking "how can one be so stupid or desperate to even apply anymore"?
Well, hundreds of thousands of graduates spitted out by universities and bootcamps coupled with an economy downturn and here we are: developers are the new secretaries. Hope you know to type well ladies and gents coze you're gonna need it to get that job competing with 1000+ with about the same skill.