No we aren’t social animals, certainly not in rural areas. Give me a good book and a quiet afternoon in the shade of a tree with no neighbours any day.
You maybe not. But having lived in very rural areas you quickly realize that your neighbors are your safety net far more than the authorities and that in a pinch you all need to be able to rely on each other. A good book isn't going to get your car out of a ditch or help locate your kid or pet when it has gone missing.
> I’ve never need to rely on anyone, other than of course normal economic transactions.
That's funny. You are relying on thousands of other people every day, all day long. you just don't realize it. And not all of those are economic transactions there is plenty of goodwill involved. For instance, you rely on other people not to kill you when you are driving. Every time a stranger saves your bacon when you make a mistake, for instance. They don't have to! But if that's your worldview I don't think I'll be able to change it.
> Why would I park my car in a ditch?
I don't think anybody who ever parked their car in a ditch asked that question prior to it happening and afterwards they probably still didn't know. But in areas where there is snow it isn't rare at all to have vehicles do stuff that wasn't quite in the plan. My neighbor in Canada managed to do this with a tractor. Fortunately for him I had a bigger tractor and was able to pull his out of the ditch. And when it was my turn someone kindly brought over an excavator...
Society is a fabric, and no man is an island, not even you. You may have the illusion that you are but from the cradle to the grave you are 100% dependent on other people. Unless you live in the boonies and grow your own food and hunt, but if that were the case you wouldn't be writing here. Speaking of which: right now you rely on me to converse with you.
Those are normal expectation of living in society. Talking you your neighbour is not.
I’m sure it was decades ago in the curtain twitching world where people stayed living int he same street for decades, but not today in a highly movable world. Certainly not for me any my peers. any interactions I make are slot my own choosing, that I happen to live near someone is of no consequence.
If I did park my car in a ditch there a plethora of recovery services that will retrieve it, whether I’m a mile from home of 200 miles from home. I have no need or desire to know anything about the recovery driver, or the pilot who flew the plane I was last on, or the guy who delivers my mail, nor the plumber who replaced my boiler last year.
> Those are normal expectation of living in society. Talking you your neighbour is not.
Given how our language has a word, "neighborly", to describe friendly, helpful behavior, I think the burden is on you here for explaining why talking to your neighbor isn't a thing one can normally expect. I don't think you've done that yet.
> I’m sure it was decades ago in the curtain twitching world where people stayed living int he same street for decades, but not today in a highly movable world. Certainly not for me any my peers.
How old are you? I'm in my mid 30s and this describes none of my peers, including the younger ones in their late 20s. I can imagine younger folks wanting this. I certainly remember having friends who talked about wanting to move around to different cities/countries all the time in college and shortly after, but their priorities shifted over time. I have friends who love to travel, but I don't know anyone who wouldn't love either a house or an apartment they didn't have to worry about losing each year due to the landlord jacking up the rent or the building being sold to someone who wants to convert the building to condos.
> any interactions I make are slot my own choosing, that I happen to live near someone is of no consequence.
I'm not sure what this means. I can't imagine it's literally true as you can't really control if someone else approaches you, unless you just flatly refuse to acknowledge their presence.
> If I did park my car in a ditch there a plethora of recovery services that will retrieve it, whether I’m a mile from home of 200 miles from home.
I've had to wait a long time on a tow truck before when the weather was pleasant. When there's a snowstorm emergency services get slammed and delays increase. My neighbor has a truck and a snow plow, and I wouldn't hesitate to ask him if he could help unstick my car if it sank into the mud a bit. Also, he plows my driveway when the snow is heavy. We do neighborly things for them as well, like helping out when a tree falls in their yard.
I don't have kids yet, but from our experiences helping our neighbors out and having grown up with neighbors we knew well, they're invaluable for raising kids. "It takes a village to raise a child" is quite real!
I'm not sure if age has much to do with people's feelings on the importance of "neighborliness", but since you think it matters - I am in my 40s.
I live happily alone. I have never owned a house and I have no desire to ever own one. I don't greet my neighbors and never have. And yet, somehow, I am still able to function in society. In my current place, I have spoken to my neighbors once or twice, when a problem was affecting the building, or the floor, or just our section of the floor. We communicated well enough to contact the landlord and decide who would stay home when the workman came. We have collaborated to solve shared problems, as any human in society does. I don't know their names or anything about their private lives, though. It's not relevant. They're not my friends, they are just part of my community.
From my perspective the idea that only friends are capable of helping one another out is a really pessimistic view of the world that - when applied broadly - results in corruption and injustice. I place a greater importance on civil society then on friendship, and I am grateful to live amongst neighbors who apparently feel the same.
> I'm not sure if age has much to do with people's feelings on the importance of "neighborliness", but since you think it matters - I am in my 40s.
I think someone's experience of major life events probably plays into this. I don't think it fully determines someone's position obviously, but I'd be pretty surprised if it didn't correlate somewhat. There are always going to be outliers though.
> I don't greet my neighbors and never have. And yet, somehow, I am still able to function in society.
I don't doubt that's true, and I didn't say you couldn't function in society either. When I lived in apartments I didn't say hi to my neighbors much either, as in that case the landlord fulfills a lot of the same type of role, and neighbors come and go much faster.
> From my perspective the idea that only friends are capable of helping one another out is a really pessimistic view of the world that - when applied broadly - results in corruption and injustice.
I agree. That would indeed be a very pessimistic view of the world. For what it's worth I don't think I said anything of the sort. I do think people are more likely to help out people they know and like though. I don't know if that's good or not, but I think it's true. Regardless, I don't know how you'd reach out to someone you didn't have contact info for, and knowing someone's routine surely helps as well.
>In 2021, 8.4% of Americans lived in a different residence than they did a year ago, per the Census Bureau's annual Current Population survey. This was not only a decline from 9.8% in 2019 and 9.3% in 2020, but the lowest "mover rate" since at least 1948 — the earliest data period measured. Back then, the mover rate was roughly 20%, and it's been on a steady decline since the 1980's.
It's a bit odd to make such a blanket statement for people living in rural areas all over the world. These are "my peeps" and we're not any of those things.
It's not about you or "your peeps" but rather about the repressive laws (and predominant culture which gives rise to such laws) in these places.
I was specifically talking about rural areas in the US, since HN is predominantly a US-centric website, but my argument applies to other countries as well.
I've lived in rural areas and while there was some messed up stuff, your blanket statement wasn't entirely my experience.
I would suggest that, while you might find less cosmopolitan people in rural areas, they're also more willing to overlook aspects of you that they dislike. You can't really afford to be too picky about your friendships when there's not much to choose from.
