To be fair, it is silly to even separate them as they're all fighting hand in hand with regular Russian army with Russian army supplies, so for all intents and purposes they were both part of it.
But seeing as the person I was responding to is touting about "powerful Russian military" and "weak Europe" from the comforts of the western middle class, I don't really want to engage in discussion any further.
Milchakov was seen on a Wagner photo in Syria and "allegedly since the summer of 2017 a group of 6 people from Rusich fought in Wagner" ("С осени 2017 года у Вагнера в строю якобы целая группа из «Русича» – шесть человек.") [0]
So much for Rusich being a part of Wagner. The same source says Wagner killed 5 fighters from Rusich guarding one of Donbass warlords.
"so for all intents and purposes they were both part of it"
Not really. Rusich is a dirty secret just like Utkin's personality. They are not legitimized in any way. Azov with the Wolfsangel on their banner and Aidar are openly ultra-nationalist and touted by Kyev as heroes.
As I said, I took it off wiki and I did not verify sources further due to lack of interest in this angle (Wagner is equally despicable in my view).
Russia and Russian Military have a long and proven track record of lying without any shame or remorse, so I don't really care what the "official" standing of these units is. They are fed by Russia, armed by Russia and controlled by Russia, everything else is "Пыль в глаза".
Without downplaying the troubling beginnings of Azov (who aren't the worst offenders by a mile if you look at 2014-2015, to be honest) -- it has little bearing in 2023.
Ukrainian army went a long way cleaning up their ranks and becoming a professional army since then, they had trials and punished their own soldiers for committing crimes in ATO, which Russian side not only did not do, but encouraged.
The World is holding Ukraine to an impossible standard right now, magnifying every individual case and person to paint the whole country in bad light while turning the blind eye to one to Russian atrocities (See HRW about Cluster munitions for Ukraine vs silence on Russia using all sorts of forbidden weaponry).
"they had trials and punished their own soldiers for committing crimes in ATO"
Zelensky let them all out when the war started[0], including the infamous Tornado battalion[1][2].
"have a long and proven track record of lying without any shame or remorse"
Just like the Ukraine or the US.
"which Russian side ... encouraged"
Another fine example of 'atrocity propaganda'[3] to mobilize public support in Western countries for the Ukrainian war.
"vs silence on Russia using all sorts of forbidden weaponry"
So why is the silence? That happens when things get investigated and no proof is found. I remember Ukrainian general claiming in 2014 that Russia used a tactical nuke in Donbass.
Zelensky let them out after many years in prison when faced with full scale war, I do like how you are silent on Russia recruiting violent offenders in prisons to go to Ukraine though. And no, it was not just Wagner doing so, and even Wagner was doing it with explicit approval from Russian government.
The audacity to compare Ukraine, which has incredible level of transparency during this invasion in every aspect, welcoming auditors and investigators from all over the world to Russia is very telling of your biases.
I am Russian, I am well aware of nuances, but to even begin to compare the two is insanity in 2023.
I wanted to verify sources a bit further myself, but alas: https://i.imgur.com/YxG58lR.png
To be fair, it is silly to even separate them as they're all fighting hand in hand with regular Russian army with Russian army supplies, so for all intents and purposes they were both part of it.
But seeing as the person I was responding to is touting about "powerful Russian military" and "weak Europe" from the comforts of the western middle class, I don't really want to engage in discussion any further.