Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

> the Germanic words stemming from 'kase', referring to caseine

Casein was not discovered before cheese was. 'kase' doesn't refer to casein. Casein, the family of proteins, is named after cheese, the milk product consisting in large part of those proteins.

And 'kase' is not a Germanic root. Fromage descends from the Latin word for "shape". 'kase' descends from the Latin word for "cheese".

> There are two conclusions here, one being that the dictionary translation of words does not capture somewhat-subtle but sometimes important distinctions between words.

This isn't right either. Tin soldiers must be cast, but they are obviously not cheese, and therefore they are also not fromage. The etymology of the word tells you nothing about its meaning.

(The conclusion is fine, but drawing it from this evidence is not -- if you translate French fromage as "cheese", you're not missing any subtle distinctions. It means cheese.)



Do you have references for the last of your claims? I thought I did a reasonably exhaustive search for a layperson, but the sources I found could certainly be wrong. My hobby searches in this area have led me to conclude that etymology isn't a hard science, and ultimately one will arrive at someone's qualified opinion about something.

The relation between 'kase' and casein is very fair; cheese production obviously predates protein chemistry. I guess what I was trying to say was that the words are related, but if 'kase' derives from Latin for 'cheese', the rabbit hole continues. Why does the French word derive from shape, if the Romans already had a word for cheese? And what did their definition of cheese include?


> Why does the French word derive from shape, if the Romans already had a word for cheese?

This is not a question that it's possible to answer. Languages change.

Why is the modern English term dog, a word of no known origin, instead of the native (still extant, but not really alive) term hound?

> Do you have references for the last of your claims? I thought I did a reasonably exhaustive search for a layperson, but the sources I found could certainly be wrong.

Assuming you're referring to the claim that the English word "cheese" (and the similar terms in other Germanic languages) is derived from an ancient borrowing of the Latin word caseus, meaning "cheese", I was not able to find any source that didn't confirm it. Wiktionary will tell you this. etymonline will tell you this. The OED will also tell you this:

> Forms: 1 cese, cyse, 2 cease, cæse, 5 schese, 6 chease, cheise, chiese, ches, 2–6 chese, 4, 6– cheese. [OE. (Anglian) cése, (WSax.) *cíese, cýse (with i- umlaut from céasi, cǽsi) = OHG. châsi (MHG. kæse, Ger. käse), OLG. kâsi, kêsi (MDu. kâse, Du. kaas):—WGer. *kâsi, ad. L. cāse-us cheese (bef. 5th c.).]

Where were you checking that didn't say this?

If you want a reference to the fact that the Latin word caseus means "cheese", try here: https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext...


Is this why cheese (I believe via Roman Latin) is also 'cacio'?

I'm only familiar due to 'cacio a pepe'.


Yes.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: