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PatternFly: An open source design system (patternfly.org)
70 points by alexzeitler on April 8, 2023 | hide | past | favorite | 31 comments


from https://www.patternfly.org/v4/ux-writing/numerics

"When you represent the date as a numeric value or label, use MM-DD-YYYY."

possibly the dumbest date format known to man. ISO 8601 for time format is eschewed, but they do go on to make a gesture towards internationalisation with:

"Use a currency's ISO three-digit numeric code when writing for computerized systems or for countries that don't use Latin scripts."

(That's ISO 4217 for all the standards buffs.)


The neatest thing about YYYY-MM-DD is that it disambiguates between American and European dates.


And is sorted correctly as string.


that's rather the point of my original comment...


For completeness https://xkcd.com/1179/


What is it with modern "designers" and their visceral hate towards text input boxes: https://www.patternfly.org/v4/components/text-input

For all their talk about accessibility they go out of their way to make basic input as inaccessible as possible.

Remember how Google needed a user study with 600 people to arrive at common sense conclusion that text input has to look like text input? (And sti failed to make it be that) Yeah


You reminded me of all those Google Form inputs that only have a single line but expecting me to fill in more than a short sentence. It’s even more frustrating on mobile (Safari, iOS) that I can’t move the cursor anywhere


What's wrong with the text boxes?


Modern "designers" hate that input boxes are just that: visually recognizable accessible input boxes. They go out of their way to make it anything but an easily recognizable input box.

"Oh, why don't we make it just a white field on a white background with just an underlines and perhaps invisible light gray borders. And for disabled state we'll make it an unreadable gray on gray"

You see it everywhere. That 600 people study that Google did for Material Design? It's infuriating, through and through: "Enclosed text fields with a rectangular (box) shape performed better than those with a line affordance" https://medium.com/google-design/the-evolution-of-material-d...

Compare and contrast with people who actually think about these things: https://design-system.service.gov.uk/components/text-input/


If contrast is an issue to you, check out accessibility options or monitor settings. Maximizing contrast everywhere usually sacrifices readability elsewhere. (Almost like everything in design is a trade-off.)

Gov.uk is a government site that has to accessible to absolutely everyone, including tech-illiterate users. It also has a comparatively low density.


> If contrast is an issue to you, check out accessibility options or monitor settings.

No. It's not the job of the user to make thin near-invisible lines or gray-on-gray text legible

> Gov.uk is a government site that has to accessible to absolutely everyone,

Exactly. And how is this a bad thing?


If a design was chosen to work best for the majority of users but it doesn't work for you, then accessibility settings can help to accommodate you.

I think the "Increase Contrast" setting on MacOS does exactly what you want. The one in Windows 11 also seems quite decent. Maybe if you try it out, you'll realize why it isn't the default.

> how is [the uncompromising accessibility of Gov.uk] a bad thing?

It only works because of it's low density. There's very little consideration for hierarchy or depth.


> If a design was chosen to work best for the majority of users

That it works for majority of users has to be proven

> I think the "Increase Contrast" setting

Will do nothing for nearly invisible lines or dark gray on slightly darker gray in the text input "designs"

> It only works because of it's low density.

That the PatternFly design will work at "high density" for some undefined definition if high density also has to be proven.

Like Google, you may want to conduct a user study with 600 people to give you some common sense


My own issue with these is that they handle excessive input by horizontal scrolling, which can only be considered a solution by someone who prioritizes the consistency/alignment of their layout over usability (a truly villainous prioritization)


But that's the default text input behavior... Maybe you are thinking of the textarea element?

https://www.patternfly.org/v4/components/text-area/#textarea


You want your browser's address bar to wrap and expand vertically?


That would be great! Could you imagine being able to see the entire URL at once? That’s the dream…


I would especially love that on mobile devices, trying to align a cursor in a URL in the tiny iOS safari URL input is the worst.

Worse than most inputs, it had the audacity to sling you back to the start if you look at it the wrong way while trying to scroll right.


They only have a bottom border that stands out.


Good point!


Since it isn't clearly mentioned on the site: PatternFly is founded by RedHat (now part of IBM) and serves as a foundation for https://ux.redhat.com/.

Formerly PatternFly was rather RedHat specific but it looks like they've spin-off the RedHat parts and made PatternFly general purpose (which is great ofcourse).


Yes.

IIRC, Patternfly started many years ago, because many open source project (of Red Hat interest), had inconsistent ui. The idea was to develop a common guideline that other open source projects could use and be somewhat consistent with each other. To have a framework, artwork and guidelines that would be available on permissive terms forever.


I love when companies open source their design systems like this. It’s great for learning how to build consistent design language, like picking colors and such.


How does patternfly compare to the carbon design system? https://carbondesignsystem.com/

Since red hat now belongs to ibm and patternfly is from red hat ans rhe carbon design system is from ibm i wonder which one will stay!?


Who's the boss? :)


What are other similar UI component libraries, that have "enterprise" oriented components, like data tables and decent accessibility? Being JS framework agnostic (web components) is a pro too.


Taber is probably the only UI framework that has tables and such: https://preview.tabler.io/ It's not too easy to work with because you need to learn its idosyncrasies and classes etc., but design-wise it's very decent.


Material Design has web components now.


No one should ever recommend Material Design for anything.

In their original iteration they had to do a study with 600 people to find out that text inputs should look like text inputs: https://medium.com/google-design/the-evolution-of-material-d.... (Edit: and their text fields by default still don't look like text fields, you have to specifically set them to `outlined`)

Their latest abomination has almost nothing aligned optically: https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/1643607965935476737 When there are 5 elements, they follow 5 different guidelines: https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/1643682248959328258


Sorry if I may seem ignorant, but how is this different from Storybook? Is one a finished design system, and the latter one just a tool do document your design system?


PatternFly is a UI lib with premade components that you can use to build your app with. Storybook is used to showcase your app's UI and people often use it to showcase their own design systems




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