Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

> We have normalised firing of people. I don't know about the "developed" countries where people have social security, but for countries like India where there is no social security and stigma is associated with being laid off, it is a very difficult situation.

Not to sound crass here but it seems like you're fishing for virtue. Hiring and firing are normal. A company of 20,000 firing 20% of it's workforce sounds major but that's the industry. It's normalized because it is normal. The field of software engineering is so fungible 20% of employees losing their job is nearly meaningless in the current job market because you can throw and rock and find another seat to warm the next day. It's not like Ford closing a factory.

In other words, you need to relax and get out of your head a little. This industry is nothing like the factories. When 20% of factory workers lose their jobs everyone rightfully panics because it's not as easy to get another factory job (at least anymore...here in the west). 20% of tech employees getting laid off from a company is a nothingburger. 99% of these people will be able to take two weeks of free time and find another job for the same (or often better) pay. This is the definition of trivial.



Your comment seems to assume that 1) employment levels for software engineers is the same in India 2) that the OP has overstated the social stigma of layoffs in India, and finally 3) the current employment landscape that you find yourself in will last indefinitely.

Based on this, I suspect it's highly likely the hubris in this comment will not age well.


1) India is the chief exporter of software engineering for the world. There are a billion people in India (or more). So naturally on a per-population basis the number will be lower. Given that there are nearly entire towns dedicated to tech services I doubt finding a new job is difficult for those that want one. Especially given how huge labor arbitrage is in the west right now.

2) No idea. My Indian contractor coworkers never seemed to care. It's the H1Bs that panic during a layoff (understandably).

3) I don't think it will, that's why I get mine while the gettin' is good and hopefully have enough to not worry about the future whenever the FAANGs finally succeed at driving wages into the ground. However, given there are nearly 4 jobs for every engineer currently in the field according to the BLS I'm not worried at all about the next decade. I'll just continue to stack cash and re-evaluate every once in a while.


Regarding 3), I believe that solving problems and creating systems will always be relevant.


True. In fact, at my last interview they looked hard at my resume and then asked, "And so why should we hire you?".

I snapped off my sunglasses and, trying to contain my annoyance, said, "Guys, I solve problems and create systems."

After a long moment of silence, they looked at each other and nodded in approval. The boss reached out his hand to shake mine. I was hired.


And I just happened to be in the next room filming this epic moment...which included a Rudy-style slow clap building to a frenzy.

https://media.tenor.com/L0RMEbQrLXwAAAAM/meme-sunglasses.gif


Most startups doing these layoffs are not really solving any real problems. Many are wrapping up existing solutions in a better UI/UX. Which might be nice to have in an upcycle, but in a downtrend, will be the first on the chopping block.


> The field of software engineering is so fungible 20% of employees losing their job is nearly meaningless in the current job market because you can throw and rock and find another seat to warm the next day. It's not like Ford closing a factory.

... In the US.

This feels like those addenda where medical trials keep on showing some clinical effect and people in the comments have to add, some clinical effect... in mice.

The US software landscape is shaped by a unique VC landscape that has not been reproduced anywhere else in the world.

If you have lived through the dot com bubble or the 2008 sub-prime crisis you will also be aware that funding can dry up as quickly as it is thrown at you.

At the moment at least in Europe I still see a hot market for contracting roles but for permanent roles it is in no way what you describe of 'find another warm seat the next day'.


I was with you for a while, as I do believe that no job ought to be considered permanent nor anyone in tech should ever be completely caught off-guard by large layoffs or even more personal firing/replacement/course change/etc.

But > you can throw and rock and find another seat to warm the next day

Ummm, nope, not everyone's resume is pristine or has a portfolio to share. Lots of immensely talented people are at companies far outside Silicon Valley, both the place and the spirit. Not everyone can point to some app or site for public consumption, lots of work is on internal tools or programs or DevOps that no outsider sees or knows about, or is protected by all kinds of non-disclosure and IP restrictions. Some great people have an awful boss who would never provide a recommendation. There's a million reasons why getting a new job can be hard, be grateful that it appears easy from your perspective but recognize many, many extremely capable and talented people aren't in the same situation.


I tend to agree. What goes up often comes down. The same company that may reduce staff by 20% may have seen revenue growing at 40% in the last year but suddenly sees growth tapering off, and as such, re-evaluate that they've over-hired and have to adjust accordingly.

And as fast as companies hire (which people celebrate), companies can quickly layoff too (which we lament).

So just as it is normalized to do fast-hiring, such is the case for fast-layoffs/firings.


> This industry is nothing like the factories.

You seem to ignore both the trend shifts in factory jobs and software jobs. Factory workers once had exactly the same status as you describe here:

> 99% of these people will be able to take two weeks of free time and find another job for the same (or often better) pay

Also, software engineers (at the big scale) are slowly but steadily loosing the glorious position in the workforce market they once had.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: