> Such claims must be further substantiated with strong and sufficient evidence.
No, it's the other way around. Bitcoin only employed approaches that were well-researched already, the innovation essentially was combining these together. The projects I mentioned claim that they can achieve better performance without the known costs of bitcoin (really slow, really energetically expensive). It is up to them to post proof how they achieve that.
> So what is a 'proper' / 'real' / 'true' cryptocurrency then? Are there any true Scotsmen here?
Projects with some form of blockchain, which Stellar and Ripple don't have. They are essentially just a horizontically scaled, classic database (running on the nodes), which the clients access. The nodes each have a full copy of the database. There's no blockchain, no mining or any substitute etc.
> Nano
I only replied with the projects named by posters before me. Nano has no blockchain, only a DAG (a proven, decades-old data structure used e.g. in spreadsheets). Nano invented their own consensus protocol. They have the usual suspicious claims (fast, no transfer fees, no/low energy costs) that are only really achievable with a centralized design (i.e. a conventional database). How can they achieve security without heavy costs for appending to the ledger?
So you have no evidence or sources to your previous claims? As expected.
> Projects with some form of blockchain, which Stellar and Ripple don't have.
Projects such as what? Yet again no examples or sources given and more unfounded claims.
> I only replied with the projects named by posters before me. Nano has no blockchain, only a DAG (a proven, decades-old data structure used e.g. in spreadsheets).
And your point is all of the other projects (including Nano) are not 'blockchains' nor are they 'cryptocurrencies', because it is not mineable and they have 'invented their own consensus protocol'. First of all evidence that it isn't a 'blockchain'? Secondly, so I can modify the very first transaction in each of these 'conventional databases' right now?
Before you avoid giving sources again, what examples satisfies your definition of a 'proper' cryptocurrency and the claims that the aforementioned projects are not 'blockchains' or 'cryptocurrencies' or even that they are 'centralized'?
> So you have no evidence or sources to your previous claims? As expected.
If someone comes around and claims to have invented a perpetuum mobile, it is not my duty to disproof them.
> Projects such as what?
Such as Bitcoin or Ethereum.
> First of all evidence that it isn't a 'blockchain'?
It's in their whitepapers, read it up. With all due respect, I don't get the feeling you know what these words mean. Hint: the G in DAG stands for "graph", so it can't be a blockchain.
Take a step back for the moment and think about it: The inherent problem cryptocurrencies have to solve, when you take away central coordination, is the trust issue with the data. Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies tried to replace the trust in the central institution with trust in the implemented market incentives. That's why there is mining. They didn't put mining into the equation because they liked putting out CO2. There has to be something expensive to compensate for the lack of central coordination. That is why crypto is so horribly slow and expensive. The inventors didn't sit around and thought of creating the slowest possible implementation, it simply has to be expensive so that forging the ledger is expensive - because that price is the only thing preventing the rewriting of history.
With a central institution you don't have this problem: If say Paypal is the only institution allowed to write onto the ledger, you can easily have 100k ops per second or more - because these literally are simple writes to a conventional database.
You simply can't have both. In cryptocurrencies, by definition, everyone connected to the net has write access to the ledger. So you have to have a method to make writing to it expensive. If some project comes around and claims to have invented something that can only be described as an economic perpetuum mobile, i.e. having neither central coordination nor expensive writes, it is their burden of proof. Just like bitcoin did.
Edit: I looked into Nanos whitepaper and apparently Nano is trivially DDOSable for very small amounts of money. Have a look yourself:
Page 7: 4.2million transactions = 1.7G ledger size. So a transaction is 405 bytes.
Page 8: A GTX 1060 can calculate 1.25tx/seconds.
Pre Covid a GTX was 200€ and could spam the ledger with 43.74MB/day. So one only needs to invest 100k€ to flood the ledger with 22G/day / 660G/month.
So either a) the whitepaper lies, or b) Nano is completely broken, or c) There is centralization somewhere to ward off that spam.
> apparently Nano is trivially DDOSable for very small amounts of money
Do a little more research - Nano had real life spam attacks, then mitigated the spam problem with an innovative 'bucket' method. This put the lie to the common Bitcoin Maxi claim that "There has to be something expensive to compensate for the lack of central coordination."
As for Nano not being a blockchain; hint: there are chains of blocks. Look at the Nano Wiki page (very short): "Nano uses a block-lattice data structure, where every account has its own blockchain (account-chain)."
I'd say it's funny how confidently wrong your comments are; but it's just way way to common to be anything but tedious. Which was my original point precisely.
The transactions are still fee-less and well under a second.
And yes, that's the caveat, if you want to ignore the genius of it and completely get it wrong instead of learning something. It uses blockchain; it's blockchain tech, but you are soo right to say it's not blockchain because it uses blockchian in an innovative way.
Jesus fucking Christ; people who can't admit when they're out of their depth really irritate the ever-living shit out of me. Not you though, you are hilarious.
No, it's the other way around. Bitcoin only employed approaches that were well-researched already, the innovation essentially was combining these together. The projects I mentioned claim that they can achieve better performance without the known costs of bitcoin (really slow, really energetically expensive). It is up to them to post proof how they achieve that.
> So what is a 'proper' / 'real' / 'true' cryptocurrency then? Are there any true Scotsmen here?
Projects with some form of blockchain, which Stellar and Ripple don't have. They are essentially just a horizontically scaled, classic database (running on the nodes), which the clients access. The nodes each have a full copy of the database. There's no blockchain, no mining or any substitute etc.
> Nano
I only replied with the projects named by posters before me. Nano has no blockchain, only a DAG (a proven, decades-old data structure used e.g. in spreadsheets). Nano invented their own consensus protocol. They have the usual suspicious claims (fast, no transfer fees, no/low energy costs) that are only really achievable with a centralized design (i.e. a conventional database). How can they achieve security without heavy costs for appending to the ledger?