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I presume they'll talk up the $21/hour price point in PR while pretending gas, insurance, maintenance, etc. don't cost anything.


I'm not defending Uber here and it is very likely they are spinning this in their favor, but they claim that rate does include expenses:

> Ensuring drivers would earn a minimum of approximately $21 per hour while on a trip, including the costs of their average expenses

https://p2a.co/H9gttWA


They seem to be saying the $21/h is what the drivers would GROSS, not what they would NET after expenses...otherwise they would write "after" and not "including".

Compare to their blog here[1] where they are much clearer. "[T]he median driver in Seattle makes between $19 and $21 per hour before expenses. A typical expense range is between $2.94 and $6.46 per hour"

[1] https://www.uber.com/blog/seattle/a-look-at-driver-earnings-...


This wording is a little unclear. I’d have liked something a little more specific: “in addition to the incurred average costs...”. As is, it sounds like expenses may be part of the hourly rate.


That's ambiguous. Uber could say "we pay them $21 per hour, and they are expected to pay for their gas/expenses out of that" and it what they said is still true.


"While on a trip" is very slippery here.


It's actually very well defined, so I have no idea how it's a "slippery slope"


So there are 730 hours in a month. You're insured for all of them, but you might be driving for only 200 of them, and a portion of that won't be "on a trip". What percentage of the monthly commercial drivers insurance cost are they counting as expenses?

Same thing with maintenance. Yeah, that oil change may have cost $40... but none of it was incurred while on a trip.


ceejayoz didn't say slippery slope - they mean slippery as a synonym for "tricky" or "furtive"

For example, "$21 per hour while on a trip" could mean that, if a driver takes a fare 30 minutes out of town then returns empty, they are only paid $10.50 for the hour's work because returning empty was not "on a trip"


It's not "could" it's clearly the meaning. Out of town drives have surplus charge for this reason.


You can put a price on those things.

Insurance: 2400 / yr (guesstimate, maybe lower) Miles driven per year: 50k [1] Cost per mile (Incl depreciation) = 0.26$ [2] Cost per year to drive = 0.26 * 52k = 13520 Total = ~$16k per year in post tax earnings.

(Assuming numbers above still work ) Min 21$ / hr = 43,680 Minus taxes = 40,175 Minus driving costs = 24175

post-tax income per month ~= $2k

Assuming a single driver lives outside the immediate SF area, "commutes" to work, and shares an apartment, it's enough to survive. There's plenty of other jobs that pay less, so it seems unfair to target Uber on this number. You can expect to get by temporarily or make a bit of extra cash with Uber, but it's not a long term career for a driver - but I expect most drivers know that already.

[1] https://ride.guru/lounge/p/how-many-miles-do-uber-and-lyft-d... [2] https://bizfluent.com/how-5914430-compute-depreciation-based...


> it seems unfair to target Uber on this number

No it's not. That there are worse jobs elsewhere in no way implies these people are asking for anything unfair. Uber got where it is by greedily violating every regulation on the books and now that they are facing these "unfair" unionizers they demand regulation? Please.


I question "Bizfluent" as a good source. The IRS states $0.58 per mile.

[Edit]: I'll add in another source in line with the IRS rate. See AAA: https://newsroom.aaa.com/tag/driving-cost-per-mile/


Did you account for that the drivers can deduct some of the costs as a business expense?


In the other direction, commercial vehicle insurance costs substantially more.


If I understand it correctly Uber drivers must buy and maintain their cars as individuals.

That has to be more expensive than maintaining sizeable taxi service fleet. No matter how you make it Uber is taking 30-40% markup and letting drivers to eat the extra cost from this business model.


Nor their cars and the depreciation on them.




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