Specifically regarding how immigration relates to LGBT rights: Is there any statistical link between anti-LGBT hate-crime and immigration from Muslim countries?
Perhaps more to the point, if LGBT activists (HRC in particular) don't feel the same way, how do you explain that? Do they not realize Trump is (despite opposing their marriage rights and opposing protecting them from discrimination) actually their ally? I find that claim startling.
Regarding illegal immigrants, it's a tough issue. I thought www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/31/untangling-the-immigration-debate was a good broad summary of thought here. I will say that I disagree with the criticism of "entitlement." It's hard to know what you would do in their shoes, but I think it's obvious that all humans have some entitlements to some rights, and, even if we find it necessary to enforce a certain law, we should be aware of the human motivations behind such actions.
Thanks for having a nice civil back and forth with me.
> Specifically regarding how immigration relates to LGBT rights: Is there any statistical link between anti-LGBT hate-crime and immigration from Muslim countries?
Not any studies I'm aware of. From a personal standpoint, no scientific basis, I do believe that if you immigrate to a country, you should be willing to accept that country's norms and prevailing beliefs. 52% of British Muslims believe that homosexuality should be illegal. (http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/11/europe/britain-muslims-survey/) If you take a look, certain countries have high percentages of muslims who think they should have sharia law implemented. (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/22/muslims-and-...) Should we prevent people from those countries from immigrating without severe checks? I personally think so.
> Do they not realize Trump is (despite opposing their marriage rights and opposing protecting them from discrimination) actually their ally? I find that claim startling.
Trump I don't think really cares one way or another. If you look at his previous interviews, he says that he doesn't care if you're gay as long as you're smart and tough, he'll hire you. And you might want to read some of Scott Adam's blog posts. He postulates that the Clinton campaign has been so effective as painting Trump as "literally Hitler" that you can sort of stick any sort of bad image about him to him easily. Hence the racism, bigotry, etc etc.
> I will say that I disagree with the criticism of "entitlement." It's hard to know what you would do in their shoes, but I think it's obvious that all humans have some entitlements to some rights, and, even if we find it necessary to enforce a certain law, we should be aware of the human motivations behind such actions.
I agree with the human motivations, but I am a bit more callous in that I don't really care. For me, illegal immigrants are a bit like squatters in properties they don't live in. Just because they took care of the house for a while doesn't mean that they can live there because they really really want to and they've done it for so long.
And just a little note. Trump does have a point that Mexico is not sending us their best and brightest in illegal immigrants. It's hard crossing the border, and quite dangerous. If you were educated and skilled, you'd probably stay in Mexico or try to emigrate legally. The people who are forced to try to immigrate illegally generally don't have much to offer the United States, sadly enough. Somehow that's racist?
To be clear, Trump has publicly come out both against gay marriage and against anti-discrimination laws. Sure, that's fairly mainstream as of ten years ago, but it's hardly "pro LGBT."
It's weird to me to characterize the candidate's willingness to ban people who might potentially be more anti-gay than the prior as a pro-LGBT position, especially in comparison to a candidate who supports laws that actually advance and protect gay rights.
(Anyway, what about gay immigrants from Muslim countries? Surely those coming from countries with repressive laws are most deserving of admission, no?)
In your reply, you sort of beat around this bush, I think. Yes, you can paint Trump a lot of ways (though I think much of that owes to what the man himself says), and yes, immigrants from conservative religious societies may be less prone to support liberal values, but the candidate himself also does not support those values. He opposes gay marriage. He opposes anti-discrimination legislation.
http://www.hrc.org/2016RepublicanFacts/donald-trump-opposes-....
Surely the candidate's own statements on policy matter, don't they?
Also, regarding immigration, I get the impression many anti-immigration advocates are also opposed to increased skilled immigration--expanded H1Bs, allowing graduates to convert student visas to work visas, etc. Yet the economic argument there is even more clear: expanding the skilled workforce brings competitive advantages (even if one, as Trump appears to do, takes a zero-sum view of economic growth).
I think accusations of racism are not made quite so lightly. But Trump did claim that he saw "thousands of Muslims celebrating" in New Jersey after 9/11. He did claim illegal immigrants are "rapists and murderers", when statistically they commit fewer violent crimes than the control. The anti-immigration arguments often do take a racial tone, as when people complain about "press 2 for Spanish" or when a (Hispanic, yes) Trump supporter warned of "taco trucks on every corner".
I doubt racism is your motivation, or that of many supporters. But I am surprised and worried when Trump supporters don't identify the ambiguously (or, in the case of David Duke, not so ambiguously) racist motivations of their comrades-in-arms or their candidate himself.
Specifically regarding how immigration relates to LGBT rights: Is there any statistical link between anti-LGBT hate-crime and immigration from Muslim countries?
Perhaps more to the point, if LGBT activists (HRC in particular) don't feel the same way, how do you explain that? Do they not realize Trump is (despite opposing their marriage rights and opposing protecting them from discrimination) actually their ally? I find that claim startling.
Regarding illegal immigrants, it's a tough issue. I thought www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/31/untangling-the-immigration-debate was a good broad summary of thought here. I will say that I disagree with the criticism of "entitlement." It's hard to know what you would do in their shoes, but I think it's obvious that all humans have some entitlements to some rights, and, even if we find it necessary to enforce a certain law, we should be aware of the human motivations behind such actions.