Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

Novices also tend to gravitate towards "end-game" business metrics which have a lot more inherent variation than simple operational indicators.

For example - optimizing a content site for AdSense; many folks would gravitate to AdSense $$ as the target metric, which is admittedly an intuitive solution (since that's how you're ultimately getting paid).

But if you think about it....

AdSense Revenue =>

(1 - Bounce Rate) x Pages / Visit x % ads clicked x CPC

Bounce rate is binomial probability with a relatively high p-value (15%+), thus you can get statistically solid reads on results with a relatively small sample.

Pages / Visit is basically the aggregate of a Markov chain (1 - exit probability); also relatively stable.

% ads clicked - binomial probability with low p-value; large samples becomes important

$ CPC - so the ugly thing here is there's a huge range in the value of a click... often as low as $.05 for a casual mobile phone click or $30 for a well qualified financial or legal click (think retargeting, with multiple bidders). And you're usually dealing with a small sample of clicks (since the average % CTR is very low). So HUGE natural variation in results. Oh, and Google likes to penalty price sites with a large rapid increase in click-through-rate (for a few days), so your short term CPC may not resemble what you would earn in steady-state.

So while it may make ECONOMIC sense to use test $ RPM as a metric, you've injected tremendous variation into the test. You can accurately read bounce rate, page activity, and % click-through on a much smaller sample and feel comfortable making a move if you're confident nothing major has changed in terms of the ad quality (and CPC value) you will get.



Isn't that a good argument for using $$ as the metric to optimize for? If you're going to get wiped out by variations in behavior because highly-retargeted legal clicks are worth 500x more than mobile clicks, isn't that an important variable?

The problem I frequently wonder about is that you have to assume independence about the stable variables to be comfortable testing them. In reality, the bounce rate of a people who make you lots of money is probably driven by different factors than the bounce rate of the overall population.

I guess what you should really do is optimize the bounce rate / pages per visit / etc. for just the population of people that could make you money, but you don't typically have access to that information.


$$ can be done in a bandit setting, but the key challenge is that your feedback is highly delayed (maybe weeks or months).

As the parent poster says, its best to focus on individual funnel steps that provide fast feedback, at least initially.

Once the whole funnel is optimized (does this ever happen?), you could start feeding in end-to-end $$ metrics.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: