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I feel the same


As a sidenote, I guess spec could be useful for "verifying" the data.


I can relate:

> The Lisp curse? In a nutshell too much power means less or no hardship; no hardship — no community.


How so? You work with Clojure or CL?


it is actually suprisingly fast


The demos are very slow for me. I dunno if I can somehow display it but it feels like ~10 FPS.


Did you try different browsers? The speed is very reasonable for me (considering the amount of BitBlt). I use SqueakJS to develop business software (using only Smalltalk). In these applications I am running SqueakJS headless and create a GUI using WebComponents (created through Smalltalk classes). This also runs very fast (tested on Firefox, Chrome and Safari).


Could you elaborate how this works – Headless SqueakJS plus WebComponents GUI?


Instead of having a Smalltalk image which contains the typical GUI (Morphic or otherwise being BitBlt on a HTML Canvas) I run a Smalltalk image which has a number of Classes representing WebComponents. These classes have a small interface with Javascript (implemented as primitive calls in case you are familiar, similar to other SqueakJS plugins). When instantiating such a WebComponent, it will also instantiate a DOM element (the WebComponent). Events in the browser are wrapped in Smalltalk event classes and will be given to an event handler process (Smalltalk process) which will do the relevant work. So for example drag and drop is implemented fully in Smalltalk. The Smalltalk image I run to have this Web UI (and run only a Web UI, no business logic in the browser) is very small. It is only a little over 200Kb. My code is free to use. See https://github.com/ErikOnBike/CodeParadise I need to add some more documentation and more demos. I have been very busy with developing software and have been lacking a bit in giving some love to those. Edit: An explanation and demo can be found here: https://vimeo.com/457353130


Interesting. At 54:55 Tim Rowledge mentions Distributed Smalltalk by Chris Mala (not sure about the name). Is there any information about this? I could not find anything what seemed relevant or recent.


That would be "Chris Muller". Chris wrote, amongst other things, the Magma database and the Maui user interface stuff. Take a look at http://www.squeaksource.com/@QWhy5xpjQLo5Sty4/rBdVcxgb for the Magma code and http://www.squeaksource.com/@QWhy5xpjQLo5Sty4/yM0obItA for the client-server stuff. You might also be interested in the image spawning capabilities in Dave Lewis' OSProcess project; very fast forking of running images with their own work to do etc. See http://www.squeaksource.com/@QWhy5xpjQLo5Sty4/uLwQvnlU


Nope, tested it on Vivaldi only. I may give Firefox and Chromium a try, too.


At that moment, Anton became enlightened.


I guess it's easy to parse, and excellent for macros!


Mushroms made us smart


Stoned Ape Theory... I have read that before.


Couldn’t agree more


What happened to all the visual images in this PDF?



Awesome! We've changed the URL to that from https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~bam/papers/vltax2.pdf above, and have bumped the year from 1989 to 1990.

Awesome to see you in this thread too!


Looks like the linked PDF was a draft (see Brad's comment) Here is the link to paper with figures http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~bam/papers/chi86vltax.pdf


The journal version (1990) is a slightly updated version from the CHI Conference version (1986).


I thought it was funny, to read about Visual Programming, without actual seeing any visuals.


How about the speed of compilation? Is it bearable?


It's very slow for the initial revision, as it has to compile all its dependencies. From there, if you add in full async/await support with a web server framework, you're looking at ~6sec iteration time. If you bring in LLVM's LLD instead of GNU or MSVC, you can bring that down to ~3-4sec. They're working on adding support for their own LLVM competitor, Cranelift, that should further reduce those times. It's only intended for debug/development builds, though, so you'll still need longer compile times for release.


While the compile times are a bit slower, one of the advantages of the strict type system is you don't need to compile to an executable quite as often.

Most of the time your IDE's messages (or "cargo check" output) is sufficient to find all the things the compiler will complain about.

I usually find that once I've fixed all of those, I compile it once and it just works.


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