I watched the video on the home page and thought it is weird that they spend an inordinate amount of time on frame rate. Who picks an editor based on frame rate?
If you want to talk about perf in the context of a text editor show me how big of a file you can load--especially if the file has no line breaks. Emacs has trouble here. If you load a minified js file it slows to a crawl especially if syntax highlighting is on. Also show me how fast the start up time is. This is another area where Emacs does not do well.
So Zed is available on Windows--but only if you have a x64 processor. Lots of people run Windows on Arm64 and I don't see any mention of Arm64. This is where the puck is heading.
It's not just frame rate, but also input delay. If you're using Visual Studio Code, you might be used to waiting 100 ms for a character you typed to appear. My personal workflow is based on Kitty and Neovim, which I've configured so that it can launch within 20 ms. Working without any input delay allows me to explore and edit projects at typing speed. As such, even tiny delays really bother me and make me lose my flow. I would believe Zed's focus on performance is motivated similarly.
Also, I do not believe Windows on Arm64 is a very large demographic? Especially for developers, unless they're specifically into that platform.
The only IDE I have used where frame rate is noticeable was Visual Studio (not Code).
Once you are beyond a bare minimum, every other speed metric is more important. Zed does really well on many of those, but some depend on the LSP, so they become the bottleneck quickly.
Yeah. The Steam survey isn't a perfect sample since it's skewed towards gamers, but that currently shows just 0.08% of Windows users are on ARM, while 81.5% of Mac users are on ARM.
That may be true if you're looking at all windows computers in existence. If you look at new laptops being sold you see different numbers. As of 2025, Arm processors hold about 13% to 20% of the market share for new Windows laptops. This is important because these are the people who are more likely to download and install your software.
You literally can’t tell the difference in a 20ms delay. That is an order of magnitude lower than the neural feedback loop latency. You may think that you can, but studies don’t back this up.
> At the most sensitive, our findings reveal that some perceive delays below 40 ms. However, the median threshold suggests that motorvisual delays are more likely than not to go undetected below 51-90 ms.
By this study's numbers, 20ms is somewhat below the lower limit of ~40ms, but not too far below. 100ms would be easily perceivable - though, based on the other replies, it seems that VS Code does not actually have that much latency.
Don't confuse this with human reaction time, which is indeed an order of magnitude higher, at over 200ms. For one thing, reaction time is based on unpredictable events, whereas the appearance of keystrokes is highly predictable. It's based on the user's own keypresses, which a touch typer will usually have subconsciously planned (via muscle memory) several characters in advance. So the user will also be subconsciously predicting when the text will appear, and can notice if the timing is off. Also, even when it comes to unpredictable events, humans can discern, after the fact, the time difference between two previous sensory inputs (e.g. between feeling a keyboard key press down and seeing the character on screen), for much shorter time differences than the reaction time.
Of course, just because these levels of latency are perceptible doesn't mean they're a material obstacle to getting work done. As a relatively latency-sensitive person, I'm not sure whether they're a material obstacle. I just think they're annoying. Higher levels of latency (in the hundreds of ms) can definitely get in the way though, especially when the latency is variable (like SSH over cellular connections).
You're the one who said "you literally can't tell the difference". I agree to a point. It seems plausible that they were experiencing some other effect such as hitching or slowdown, rather than just a constant 100ms delay (which again isn't supposed to happen).
On the other hand, I just thought of one way that even a small fixed amount of latency can be a material obstacle. Personally, I type fast but make lots of typos, and I don't use autocorrect. So I need to react to incorrect text appearing on screen, backspace, and retype. The slower I react, the more text I have to delete (which means not just more keypresses but also more mental overhead figuring out what I need to retype). For this purpose, I am bound by the human reaction time, but editor latency is added on top of that. The sooner the text appears, the sooner my 'reaction timer' can start, all the way down to 0 latency. [Edit: And 100ms of latency can make a meaningful difference here. I just did a quick typing speed test and measured 148 WPM which is around 12 characters per second, so 100ms is one extra character, or a bit more.]
Also, latency might affect productivity just by being annoying and distracting. YMMV on whether this is a legitimate complaint or whether you should just get used to it. But personally I'm glad I don't have to get used to it, and can instead just use editors with low latency.
"Order of magnitude", so you're saying the neural feedback loop latency is >100ms? That seems obviously wrong.
Also you can absolutely feel the visual difference between 60Hz (~16ms) and 120Hz (~8ms), and for audio it's even more nuanced.
Just because studies don't back this up yet doesn't make it false. I imagine this is really hard to measure accurately, and focusing only on neuron activity seems misguided too. Our bodies are more than just brains.
> "Order of magnitude", so you're saying the neural feedback loop latency is >100ms? That seems obviously wrong.
Human neural feedback loop latency is a range that varies widely depending on the type of loop involved. Reflex loops are fastest, operating in tens of milliseconds, while complex loops involving conscious thought can take hundreds of milliseconds.
Short-latency reflex: 20-30ms. Signal travels through spinal cord, bypassing the brain. E.g. knee-jerk reflex.
Long-latency reflex: 50-100ms. Signal travels to the brainstem and cortex for processing before returning. E.g. Adjusting grip strength when an object begins to slip from your hand.
Simple sensorimotor reaction: 230 - 330ms. Simple stimulus-response pathway involving conscious processing, but minimal decision-making. E.g. pressing a button as soon as light turns on.
Visuomotor control: ~150ms, adaptable with training. Complex, conscious loops involving vision, processing in the cortex, and motor commands. E.g. steering a bike to stay on a path in a video game.
Complex cognitive loops: Brain's processing speed for conscious thought is estimated at 10 bits per second, much slower than the speed of sensory data. High-level thought, decision-making, internal mental feedback. E.g. complex tasks like analyzing a chess board or making a strategic decision.
A few years ago I did some testing with a quick Arduino-based setup I cobbled together and got some interesting results.
The first test was the simple one-light-one-button test. I found that I had reaction time somewhere in the 220-270ms range. Pretty much what you'd expect.
The second test was a sound reaction test: it makes a noise, and I press the button. I don't remember the exact times, but my reaction times for audio were comfortably under 200ms. I was surprised at how much faster I was responding to sound compared to sight.
The last test was two lights, and two buttons. When the left light came on I press the left button; right light, right button. My reaction times were awful and I was super inaccurate, frequently pressing the wrong button. Again, I don't remember the times (I think near 400ms), but I was shocked at how much just adding a simple decision slowed me down.
High frame rates (low frame times, really) are essential to responsiveness which, for those who appreciate it, is going to make much more of a difference day to day than the odd hiccup opening a large file (not that zed does have that issue, I wouldn't know as I haven't tried opening something huge).
You probably do. Many people just never notice that. It's not about typing or reading fast either, it's just about how it feels. Typing into something with shitty latency feels like dragging my fingernails across a chalkboard.
It's the same with high dpi monitors. Some people (me included) are driven absolutely insane by the font rendering on low density monitors, and other people don't even notice a difference.
Honestly, consider yourself blessed. One less thing in the world to annoy you.
Yes, I can perceive that latency, if I am actively looking for it. No, it has absolutely no effect whatsoever on my ability to work. The latency is far, far below what could possibly affect neural feedback loops, even on the slowest editors. And it doesn’t bother me in the slightest.
Low-dpi font rendering also isn’t an issue for me, unless it is so bad as to be illegible (which no modern system is).
Me! Frame rate and input latency are very important for a tool I use for hours every day. Obviously that's not the only feature I look for in an editor but if an editor _doesn't_ have it, I skip it. I also try to work on devices with 120Hz displays and above these days.
This always makes me laugh. The editor was barely announced two years ago. They've built it from the ground up with native support now for three different operating systems. They're experimenting with some cool new features, and even though I don't care about it I've heard their AI integration is pretty damn good.
But waaaaah they don't support a processor that accounts for probably less then 10% of Windows Machines
Ubiquity is pretty important when you're going to invest in learning a new editor. This is one of the advantages of vim for example. It is available everywhere... linux, windows, terminal, gui, etc.
Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has bragged he had Jared Kushner "in his pocket." Oil-producing middle-eastern countries, having made significant contributions to Trump family's wealth, have enormous influence over him. If you were the ruler of an oil-producing country and have enormous influence over Trump, what would you have him do for your country?
If it was me, this is what I would have him do: Pull out of the Paris climate accord, cancel renewable energy projects, cancel EV tax credits. Trump has done all that.
Mohammed bin Salman and Trump are in each other's pockets. One of Trump's first acts in his first term was to approve the sale of military equipment to Saudi Arabia for the first time. At the time, MBS was the defense minister, and was not the Crown Prince. Almost all western open source intelligence on the matter will state that this act alone was what convinced King Salman to remove Muhammad bin Nayef as Crown Prince, and install MBS in his stead. The deal closed in May, and MBS was made Crown Prince in June. MBS literally owes his role as future King to Donald Trump. Trump would later brag about protecting "our guy" after the whole world condemned him and wanted to cut ties to Saudi Arabia for killing Khashoggi. When MBS did his now infamous 2017 purge of Saudi Billionaires, imprisoning them in a hotel and confiscating their wealth or securing their loyalty, he was likely doing it with CIA-sourced intel, hand delivered by Kushner [0] who had finally received the necessary security clearances which the Trump administration directly intervened in issuing [1].
In October 2022, literally a week after meeting Putin for the first time, Elon Musk started mirroring Russian propaganda [2], even though he had been a staunch supporter of Ukraine until that point. A week later, he would announce that he had secured funding to buy Twitter. Immediately, he reversed course on his "Free Speech Absolutism" and started pumping out right wing propaganda. Not long after, he would announce that he was leaving the democratic party, and not long after that, he would endorse Trump, and then not long after that, he would begin campaigning with trump and becoming his single largest donor and chief election meddler.
When Musk was forced to disclose his investors, the list [3] included:
* the sovereign wealth fund of Saudi Arabia
* several Saudi hedge funds, including those owned by billionaires that miraculously survived the 2017 purge with their wealth intact.
* several Silicon Valley VCs who had recently announced raising significant funding from Saudi Arabia, including one that had just hired the sons of sanctioned Russian Oligarchs in Putin's inner circle [4].
* several individuals with ties to Saudi Arabia or Russia.
* (unrelated but hilarious and unsurprising) P Diddy, who knew he was in future need of a presidential pardon.
TL;DR: Mohammed bin Salman owes his position as Crown Prince to Donald Trump, and Donald Trump owes his second term to Mohammed bin Salman.
They should have tried the negligence angle. Why did the police make this mistake? Somebody didn't do their job correctly. The city is responsible for that.
Robotics has catapulted Beijing into a dominant position in many industries, especially ones involving renewable energy. Meanwhile in the US we are shutting down renewable energy projects (presumably to please middle-east benefactors), and Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick wants to bring jobs to the US that involve putting screws into phones.
> Robotics has catapulted Beijing into a dominant position in many industries
It is really weird that this could have been Japan in the 90s, but the rise of cheap labor in China put a stop to Japan's dominance and they somehow didn't get back into it when Chinese labor became more expensive.
Maybe its just bad luck that the tech in the 90s wasn't compelling enough while it is in the 2020s. But Japan was going through the same demographic shift in the 90s that China is going through today, they began to act but the world decided to do things in China instead...and then...its not really clear to me why Japan is not investing as aggressively now (unless they are broke, or the capability to do such investments is gone?).
Beijing has factories for things like solar panels, but is still creating coal plants at a rate higher than most other countries.
Many in the US don't have the stomach to achieve what is required (which what's happening in China right now):
1. Slave labor
2. No labor unions
3. Working many more hours for less pay (many employees sleep where they work)
4. Not caring about intellectual property, including your own work that might get sucked up into AI models
5. No workplace regulations
This doesn't even include the fact that China has a massive surveillance network keeping everything in order.
We have 1/100 of this in the US and people already act like they are persecuted prisoners.
Funny enough Europe uses the same excuses against America. That the reason America is far ahead of them is because of slave labour, no universal healthcare, etc
> Not caring about intellectual property, including your own work that might get sucked up into AI models
But this is particularly funny. Which American AI company has respected anyones IP when it comes to AI? Aaron Swartz is rolling in his grave seeing OpenAI.
yes companies like Samsung and Apple are listed. No, it's not the predominant industry sector.
I don't want to descend into whataboutery, but it's entirely legal to use prisoners for slave labour in the US, and is routinely discussed in US legal reddit and the like: It's normalised in the states which depend on this kind of labour to get some things like road construction/maintenance done. Historically it was field work as well. I am unsure if this continues.
You would not at this point say the VC funded AI push in the west had very much concern for IPR. This is why IPR holders are in court. And yes, courts do exist in China, even if you stand very little chance of a just outcome as a foreigner.
"Prisoners for slave labour in the US, and is routinely discussed in US legal reddit and the like: It's normalised in the states which depend on this kind of labour to get some things like road construction/maintenance done. Historically it was field work as well. I am unsure if this continues."
While it is used in some US industries, it's not nearly as pervasive as it is in China. I also think it's a much different situation in the US. In the US, it might be someone in prison for life getting a lower wage to pick up garbage on the road (as opposed to being locked in a cage all day).
In China, it's the way of life for many people in many provinces. The article you linked to is a good example of this.
I wasn't just talking about slave labor, though. It's regular labor with no regulations and long hours, which leads to children working and other horrific conditions.
It's pretty easy to get ahead, when you don't have to follow the same rules as the countries you are competing against. The irony also isn't lost on me that Republicans have wanted to get rid of regulations for years and many in the tech industry support China without hesitation.
"even if you stand very little chance of a just outcome as a foreigner."
